Racial Bias in Malaysia and Religious Differences Part II..

Well my last post Racial Bias in Malaysia and Racism in General..[/url] caused quite a stir, reaching almost 70 comments, many of which are very high quality. Thus I vote myself for PPS Ping of the year seen as though it’s that time on the calendar! (PPS Second Birthday). BTW seen as though I can’t actually vote for myself, you can all vote for me instead!

So this post is a continuation of the previous topic, a summary of comments and discussions that sprouted elsewhere as 60+ comments is a little to much for most people to read, as a lot of them are very long and involved, thanks to everyone who took the time to comment properly and give their input, and thanks also for all the praise, it’s good to be appreciated. I have read all of the comments in full and replied to those where I had something else to add, there are many interesting points and I believe comments from all of the ethnic groups within Malaysia so it gives a good representation of the current state of affairs.

Some people seemed to think I was saying that Malays are naturally dumb or something, that definately wasn’t my intention and it shouldn’t be interpreted as such, for my reply to one comment I shall quote myself..

Actually I never said Malays were stupid or untilligent, they just don’t have to work hard, so why would they?

I wouldn’t if I was in the same situation, why not take advantage of it? That’s the smart thing to do. The fact is it fucks up the country, and yes many of the Malays I get to work with are dumb, why cos if you read the whole article you’d see:

Most of the talented people in the country leave, because of this exact problem.

The hard working, smart people don’t benefit proportionally in Malaysia as they should, so they leave, this includes Malays along with the other races. There is no meritocracy, I agree it’s easier for a Malay to rise to the upper echelons, but that’s generally for the public sector, not the private sector. There is a still a seperation.

Some points made about change or the hope of change..

Nicely written by KY:

Racial tensions will solve itself in a few generations, provided religious freedom is granted.

The system was in place primarily to diffuse tension between the difference races by archiving some sort of financial and educational equality. In that sense, it is quite a success, I’m quite sure many of us wouldn’t want to have the situation like Philipines, Indonesia, or Thailand; where you either completely lose your racial identify, or you face ridiculous racial treatment in the society, take your pick.

Time has changed and the system is outdated, I agree with you. It is mostly due to the greed of the power that be to maximize their profit, hence we are staying in status quo.

With the recent change of administration, I am hoping we are slowly seeing the beginning to and end of this… I really hope to.

Another observation I made is that the Malays outside KL seem a lot more hard-working than those in KL, that’s from my personal experience, those in KL seem more indoctrinated in the system and reliant upon the benefits they receive.

A good point from Belacan:

in one part of my group, i find many smart and hardworking malay blokes but in another part of the group, you find people who have been sitting there and get gaji buta. that’s why my boss, who is a Malay, sent people like me to kick some asses.

this is a social thingy. i have been told by a few pro-umno malay youths that the time has come to wake up his fellow folks, but need to thread carefully.

first of all, let’s start by eradicating poverty irrespective of race. the implementors should not just focus on the malay poor. what about the chinese, indian and orang asli poor? altho i am generalising, but sadly, i think public perception is as such.

Eloquently put from YP, questions that need to be answered:

I guess the main reason the special rights was put into place is no longer valid these days. There’s racial harmony in the country (as compared to the 1950s) and the poverty gap between Malays and non-Malays is much smaller now.

Do the non-Malays want these rights in place? Do the Malays themselves want these rights in place? I’m sure if you’ll get a mixture of different answers (both yes and no) from both groups. Ideas like keeping people happy, wanting the extra edge.. or ideas like fighting for equality or not wanting one’s abilities to be undermined just because one has special rights…

Is there a need for special rights to be in place in this time and day? Yes.. because the non-Malay bumis (who, I believe are actually classified differently from the Malays) still need it.. but do they get as easy access to it?

Something needs to be done, but I doubt our government will do anything in the near future. The seat of power is something too precious to risk.

The truth of human nature from tigerjoe:

My main argument in having the NEP phased out is that what was once provided as a privilege, is now seen by so many as an entitlement. That is just plain wrong, as it gives clear indication that specific privileges are being taken for granted.

Something given for free will have no value to the recipient; unless they always remember that it is given as a gift. When one remembers, then only will one place a value on that gift. The day we forget is the day we take the gift for granted, and fail to treat our gifts properly.

Very well worded opinion from dawg:

Fantastic post mate! You certainly hit the nail on the head.

I can’t help but agree with your assertion that the anachronistic racial policies currently enforced by the government is leading the country down the road of utter ruin.

To gain that valuable piece of insight one only has to look at the state of Malaysian society today. The education system is a disgrace. The civil service is irredeemably corrupt.
The government-backed oligarchies are massively inefficient and utterly hopeless in the face of free competition due to suffocating protectionism. And to what end? That the political parties may retain the support of the grass roots? That the politicians, with their vested interest in the status quo, may continue to reap without sowing?

Racially -polarised politcs should not have to be a part of the equation of power any longer. It is detrimental to the holistic development of the society as a whole and it will only perpetuate the blight of sectarianism in our midst. Yet we still find our supposed betters delivering the same populist rhetoric and pandering to the same racist tendencies in order to maintain their respective bases of power. And thus we find education, the only viable antidote to racism, prostituted on the altar of power in the name of satisfying those racist tendencies and thereby perpetuating the vicious cycle of racism electing racism! Such is the sorry state of Malaysian politics.

I was born a Malaysian and I will die a Malaysian. Malaysia is more of a homeland to me than either China or India ever will be. So why am I still being treated like a barely tolerated outsider in my own country, my rodina?

Shao, I salute thee for bringing this matter to light.

Another nice point here from YP:

We see unhappy non-Malays seeking to leave the country. We see Malaysians opting to stay and work overseas. We see Malaysians sending their children to other countries to study and telling them to settle down there. The idea is simple, Malaysians don’t mind being treated as second class citizens elsewhere, but definitly not in their own country. From the other side of the matter, we see Malays enjoying the rights but yet, there are groups of Malays wishing that these rights not be in place anymore… simply because no matter what they do, their success is always attributed to their race and the special rights they are accorded. I wonder if this is fair to them. As in every race, there are the more capable people and the less capable… so in a way, I feel that the whole idea of having special rights is undermining the capability of our Malay counterparts.

I believe the fundemental flaw with the system is it’s based on ‘Bumi’ status, not anything else, Chinese can be poor too, so can Indians, and the other minorities (Iban, Kadazan, Melanau), which in part are Second class bumi’s. Which again, brings about more inequality..

I also reinforce again it’s a social problem, kids are given their ideals mainly by their parents, and later in their lifes by teachers and peers..If Malay familes at home put down Chinese for various reasons, and Chinese families at home put down Malays for whatever reasons the new generations will continue to have the same resentment against the other races.

Some of these issues are covered in Sepet for example where orkid get scholarship for getting 5As in her SPM while Mr. Sepet gets nothing for getting 7As in his SPM. Sadly this is a direct relation to reality. Someone mentioned about the 5% discounts, that’s not the major issue here, mainly it’s the lack of equality or even meritocracy in the education system, the lack of fairness in government projects (Tenders are not accepted on price, quality, experience or ability of the company to do the job in a professional manner, they are awarded to family or friends).

From a Sarawakian Bumiputera:

I dislike the preferential treatment that us Bumiputeras are entitled to. Most of the time, whoever’s in charge translate bumiputeras into ‘Malays’, while conviniently leaving out the non-Malays bumiputeras. These type of people are also the ones that are denying permit to open new temples and churches. The preferential treatment made us lazy. Even when we didn’t study hard, there will be an opening in the university for us. Even when we didn’t have the proper qualifications, there will be work for us. This made us lazier by the day. While I feel that it is justified in 1957, I don’t think it has a bearing in the 21st century where you have to work hard, by yourself, to succeed.

Is the problem religious? Racial? Social? Cultural? So many factors to take into consideration, the general consensus is however it should be discussed, it should be solved and people shouldlook into positive reform of the government policies with a light to improving disparity between races (Both in economic terms and relating to education).

Someone else mentioned the line:

It’s ok the Chinese are rich, they can afford to pay for their kids to study overseas

But it’s not like they have a choice is it? And many are not rich, they forgo new cars or moving to a bigger house to sponsor their kids to study overseas, I wouldn’t consider that rich, and often they can only afford to send one of their children, not all.

Many Malaysia Chinese students also end up with personal bonds for 100,000RM to a private company or to the civil service (teachers taking TESOL overseas for example), which they have to work out due to lack of options, lack of money from their parents and lack of government sponsorship..

I can give a real world example that I encountered this week, and things in the same vein through-out this project..This is not intended to be racist, it’s just what I’ve experienced and demonstrates the flaws in the system and the attitudes it promotes.

There are 9 critical business processes, 2 headed by Chinese, 1 by Indian and 6 by Malay

When we ask for information required for our project from these departments:

[list]
[*]The Chinese heads often call us to clarify exactly what we want
[*]They also give us complete answers and more information than we require thus making our job easier
[*]The Indian head also provides full information and a little more than required
[*]One of the Malay heads gives good information, but sometimes has to be pushed to submit
[*]3 of the Malay deparments give adequate information and have to be pushed to submit
[*]The other 2 rarely respond and we have to escalate the issue, then we get minimal information[/list]To me it exemplifies the Just enough to get by attitude that the lack of meritocracy in the education system creates, where as the non Bumi students have to try 150% harder to acheive the same ends, when they finally get to the work place, this ethic is instilled in them, so they go above and beyond. Agreed this is not always the case, and there are many Malay staff here who I work with who do excellent work and work hard, but sadly they don’t seem to get promoted, here it’s the Dilbert principle. This is the exact thing that is destroying Malaysia and causing many of the talented people to migrate to other countries where they do get rewarded for their hard work.

There was an interesting article today too about the Religious issue and PAS in particular..

So a group of younger candidates from urban professional backgrounds is trying to put its stamp on the party. (PAS)

They want to rebrand it as one that is capable of managing effectively a dynamic modern economy, albeit running it in accordance with Islamic principles.

However, they are unlikely to be able to dismantle the biggest hurdle to the party winning power – its insistence on an Islamic state.

That is an anathema to the more than 40% of Malaysians who follow religions other than Islam, and it is likely to stall efforts to unite Pas with the country’s other opposition parties – vital if they are to reduce, let alone overturn, the government’s huge parliamentary majority.

Source: BBC News

Some guy behind me just noticed me typing and asked about my blog, I wonder if he’ll read it :)

Anyway I think that’s enough about this topic for the moment, thanks for the great discussion everyone.

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47 Responses to Racial Bias in Malaysia and Religious Differences Part II..

  1. Jordan June 3, 2005 at 3:52 am #

    Certainly lots of interesting, insightful stuff here, from you and from those who commented. Discussion is good!

  2. kimberlycun June 3, 2005 at 4:06 am #

    Great post, it’s a wonder to see nothing has evolved into a flame? On a funny note, is there a residual western supremacy thing going on here? Bwahahaha just kidding! *runs*

  3. YP June 3, 2005 at 4:12 am #

    Good post. Maybe it’s cos I was quoted twice. :P :P *runs far far away*

  4. anakwayang June 3, 2005 at 4:53 am #

    … 2 very honest articles there…

  5. wil@theblackjournal June 3, 2005 at 7:05 am #

    Great post and great insights. Unfortunately, we’ve already been discussing this topic since independence and we haven’t gone more than two steps into the right direction.

  6. Overseas Student In UK June 3, 2005 at 8:54 am #

    Very insightful post, and especially from a third party perspective. Why 3rd party, ’tis because not from a bumiputra or non-bumiputra person in Malaysia, but some Mat Salleh who considers every aspect of the argument.

    Yes, this is a favourite topic of discussion, even with my Malay friends, and at mamak stalls. True, non-Malays are getting frustrated at the “biasness”, and thus we have to look for greener pastures.

    A Malay once told me that the NEP is outdated for 20 over years. The government’s prediction of equal status should have taken place that time, but due to the incompetencies of the Malays, the government has to “gather” enough votes for itself.

    Speaking of which, I believe the next election would be the best platform for Government to do something about it. If you look at the previous elections, the government is always besotted with troubles getting enough votes without threats from opposition. 2 elections ago, Keadilan and PAS caused a huge tilt in the Malay votes, and a Malay government official told me personally(and to other 50 people in the room) that the non-Malays won the election for BN. Also in the late-eighties, who can forget Semangat 46 and the power struggle between Mahathir and the Malay prince? Even I was still a little kid, a lot of educated Malays are still talking about it now. If nothing is done in 5 years time, I would say the whole system is a failure and everyone deserves to desert Malaysia for greener pastures.

    Political issues aside, indirectly this racial biasness has done wonders to the Chinese community. As a very competitive and intelligent race, to compensate for the inequalities they received, the Chinese uses this not as a negative aspect but to motivate them to work harder. Sure, they have this anger in them of being unfairly treated after so many years, and this spurs them to greater heights.

    On the other hand, the Indians have suffered due to the “capitalist” effect : the rich gets richer and the poor gets poorer. Comparing the 2 races in terms of advancements and accomplishments, I’d say Chinese is way way far ahead of their Indian counterparts. Reasons may be due to Chinese being more cohesive, better genes(!) and the mentality to survive in harsh conditions.

    Another insight for you readers(and this is my personal quote), Chinese thrives on security and opportunities. If ever the security of the Chinese community is compromised, just look out for the mass exodus out of Malaysia like how Moses led the Jews out(well, thats another story). An example of this is our close neighbour, Indonesia. As long the Chinese are promised a relatively safe environment, there will be opportunities to grow, and ultimately prosperity, which is the main aim. Rioting and demonstrations are never Chinese’s cup of tea: so is political bickering of another race. That’s why the Chinese have endured the “special privilleges” bestowed upon the Malays with little disgruntment.

    On a more general topic for general education, racial integration is not as good as what you think it is. The segregation of students, workers, people in Malaysia still exists, hidden behind a veil of compromise. Although not as severe as in the past, it still exist strongly. There are too many differences and too many matters to tolerate without getting on each other’s nerves. Look at the children of this generation. Look at the friends they mixed with. Will you confidently say that most of them have at least a few good friends of a different race? Someday it will lead to racial tensions, believe me. Would not want to elaborate on this since it’s another story altogether.

    The sad state of affairs in Malaysia due to this privilleges will always return to haunt the non-Malays. You cannot blame the people not coming back to Malaysia from overseas, and this leads to the intensely discussed “brain drain” topic. Why, even some Malays I met doesn’t even want to come back to Malaysia, saying that the system is too corrupted and taking pot shots at Malay special rights. A couple even lamented the lack of professionalism and miniscule amount of Chinese executives in certain companies since he worked wonders with Chinese people in UK.

    On the quota system(don’t know whether you know it or not): 65% must be allocated to Malays, and the rest is left to Chinese, Indians, other Malays, and other races to fight it out. Sense of injustice?

    Don’t get me wrong, I have some Malay friends who treats me like brothers, and I integrate very well into the Malay community. They themselves also agree with me on trying to reduce the racial biasness, but as students only, their capabilities are severely limited.

    Being untreated fairly in your own country is just too much to bear; it is only a matter of time when the community cannot take it anymore and drastic measures will be taken. Volcanic eruption as an analogy would be deemed fit in this context.

    I am discussing this matter generally, and of course there will be specific cases where I am wrong, but I hope it is informative and brings out a more constructive discussion.

    Time for more RoC Dota! :)

  7. jennhuiwen June 3, 2005 at 11:52 am #

    wow….another adorable post..anyway..love ur post…!

  8. S-Kay June 3, 2005 at 3:37 pm #

    We will indeed let these racial issues solve by itself in a few more generations so long as all young Malaysians are brought up in the right way (so not to be racist) and are educated the right way. This matter will never solve if people start comparing and let jealousy cloud their minds. We should instead sit and solve instead of sit and whine about what they get and what we can’t get and what nots.

    A good post indeed.

  9. TheGreatFaggot June 4, 2005 at 8:39 am #

    Can i be classified as Malay? :x

  10. REM June 4, 2005 at 2:12 pm #

    Equality? There’s no such thing in a realistic universe. It doesn’t even exist in the most democratic nation in the world. We can’t simplistically establish this non-sense equation: Non-Equality = Racism. The equation not necessarily works that way. Racism goes deeper than that.

    Asian/African students in UK pay at least THRICE TIMES higher for tuition fees compared to the EU students (which pays the same rate as the local British). I pay £10K per-year; and my French/Spanish/Irish/British friends pay less than £3K a year. Is that equal? No. Is that fair. May be not. Is that racism? Depends on how you look at it. To me, personally, that’s not racism. Each country is entitled to its own way to protect the interest of its people. This is a non-equality, but not racism.

    Having said that, if I want to argue this case historically — I would question why British government treats Asian/African and European differently (and, in favour for the latter)? After all, where did the British get the sources and means to build its civilisation during the Industrial Revolution (which eventually led into where UK is now)? They came from all these Asian and African countries (through colonialism), right? We (read as ‘Asian’ and ‘African’) helped the British built its superiority and now — this is what we get.

    I know this is a different case. This UK case is about “British vs Foreigner”, while what happens in Malaysia is “Bumiputeras vs Non-Bumi” (which are both Malaysian). However, I just want to put things into perspective — non-equality does exist everywhere, in many different forms. So, basically it’s a world norm, rather than just plain racism.

    Yes, we have this so-called special ‘privileges’ for Bumiputras in Malaysia. Is that fair for other races? NO. Does this Non-Equality work for Malaysia? Yes. History has proven it. On personal level, some people/groups may find this is terribly unfair. But it has been a winning formula for Malaysia all these years. Why risk it for a change that we’re not sure if it will work or not?

    Indonesia has long practised its so-called “PANCASILA” (since its independence): equality for everyone. No privileges to anybody. What happens then? Indonesia forms an extremely fragmented society. Certain races are super-RICH, while others are super-POOR. Certain races have been freely allowed to dominate others — in the name of liberalism/capitalism: “equal opportunity for everyone based on the principle of survival of the fittest”. What Indonesia government doesn’t realise is — not everyone naturally has an EQUAL ability to compete fairly in a totally free world. Why is it so? Because the previous colonist (i.e. Dutch) had literally fucked up the social structure of this country during the ‘invasion era’ (exactly as what British did to Malaysia; and American to Philippines).

    Can we change history? NO. This is something we can’t help. But, we surely can plan for a better future. And, I personally think that Malaysia has done it better. Malaysia had only one minor incident in May 13 (back in 1969) — and that was it. Look at Indonesia. As recent as late 90s — ‘ethnic cleansing’ and ‘civil war’ were still very common. During the economic turmoil in 1998ish — hundreds of ******* Indonesians were brutally killed and terrorised by ***** Indonesians. Why? Because people had gotten bitter and angry for years — and the economic turmoil had not only intensified it, but also provided an opportunity for these bitter people to act their anger! And, how many hundreds/thousands more innocent people got killed in the Kalimantan and Makasar civil wars? Apparently, the EQUAL APPROACH (adopted by Indonesian government) had terribly failed to make the historically-fucked-up-social-structure getting truly EQUAL. In fact, the mechanism has made the social structure even more fragmented. Think about it.

    All these years, the current policy has worked well for Malaysia as a nation-state, why gamble it for a change? Although, I must admit that this policy has not perfectly worked well for everyone, on individual level — not only less favourable for non-bumi i.e. Chinese/Indian, but also for ‘minority bumi’. I’m a Sabahan bumiputera — technically and constitutionally should be granted the same privilege as the dominant Malays do enjoy. But in reality, this doesn’t usually happen. So, on personal level — the current policy neither do favour me, nor put me in any better position than Chinese/Indian. Thus, I have some bitterness and anger (deep inside!) — just like some of you here.

    Having said that: do I fancy a change and adopting the similar approach like the so-called “Indonesian Pancasila” (EQUALITY=MERITOCRACY)? No, thank you. Why? Because, I’m not selfish. Just because the policy doesn’t work for me (and some other people) — doesn’t mean it has fucked up the entire nation. I learn history, and I understand what ‘a winning formula’ means. Getting it right on a national level is not that easy. In order to get one thing right — sometimes, we may need to sacrifice other thing. But at the end of the day — it’s the overall result that really counts.

    How many people get killed in UK and USA each year because of racism hatred? Do these two countries practise EQUALITY (as Indonesia does)? YES, they do — very STRICTLY indeed! How many people get killed in Malaysia for the same reason (if there’s any)? If you really want to measure RACISM — the valid indicator is not by simplistically analysing THE STATIC POLICY (the centre of Shaolin’s argument), but it should be based on REAL INCIDENTS. And, please don’t rely too much on cosmetic cases/examples — which based on your friends/families/neighbours experiences. A mere 20-incidents doesn’t reflect the actual reality of Malaysia, does it?

  11. Overseas Student In UK June 4, 2005 at 5:07 pm #

    Note beforehand: Bold indicates a paragraph taken from the previous post

    Equality? There’s no such thing in a realistic universe. It doesn’t even exist in the most democratic nation in the world. We can’t simplistically establish this non-sense equation: Non-Equality = Racism. The equation not necessarily works that way. Racism goes deeper than that.

    Racism isn’t what was discussed, it was racial biasness. More on a preferential part. Racism is looking at people with disgust. And yes, equality doesn’t exist in a realistic world, but how about the hyprocrites of Malaysia trying to put on a mask of deception, stating that there is fairness in Malaysia? Wake up! Malays still adopt the mentality that we are immigrants, as demonstrated by all the “background” dealings they are in.

    Tell you some truths, you know about the BTN(Biro Tata Negara) camps which tries to brainwash you into being patriotic? What was revealed there is utterly shocking, the main threats to destabilizing the country are: Chinese businessmen(Indians not included due to the small amount of them) and Christianity. What kind of hatred are we talking about, after almost 50 years of Independence?????

    Yes, other countries may not be as fair as Malaysia, but I would really like to sock any Malays saying that life is fair in Malaysia and we have equal rights. The truth is, we are still looked at with contempt. And usually who says this? The politicians and religious leaders, the ones who should have at least done something to integrate all Malaysians together.

    Asian/African students in UK pay at least THRICE TIMES higher for tuition fees compared to the EU students (which pays the same rate as the local British). I pay £10K per-year; and my French/Spanish/Irish/British friends pay less than £3K a year. Is that equal? No. Is that fair. May be not. Is that racism? Depends on how you look at it. To me, personally, that’s not racism. Each country is entitled to its own way to protect the interest of its people. This is a non-equality, but not racism.

    Dude, it’s the damn European Constitution. How about us exporting goods overseas and in ASEAN countries? Or even education? Asian/Africans — we are the foreigners there, and of course should be subjected to some “penalty” functions.

    Having said that, if I want to argue this case historically — I would question why British government treats Asian/African and European differently (and, in favour for the latter)? After all, where did the British get the sources and means to build its civilisation during the Industrial Revolution (which eventually led into where UK is now)? They came from all these Asian and African countries (through colonialism), right? We (read as ‘Asian’ and ‘African’) helped the British built its superiority and now — this is what we get.

    Skip this please, we should not be looking at external matters, and stick something closer to Malaysia, like Malaysia itself. Right, how about Chinese and Indians helping Malaya to rise to what is now Malaysia with its PETRONAS TWIN TOWERS, etc etc, and to rub it in, MALAYSIA BOLEH? Is this what the non-bumiputras get in return? Baseless argument and contradictory.

    I know this is a different case. This UK case is about “British vs Foreigner”, while what happens in Malaysia is “Bumiputeras vs Non-Bumi” (which are both Malaysian). However, I just want to put things into perspective — non-equality does exist everywhere, in many different forms. So, basically it’s a world norm, rather than just plain racism.

    So we are supposed to follow the general norm and accept our fate as it is? Of course racism must be ironed out, but racial biasness even after 10 plus years of the expiry of the initial NEP? Something must have gone really wrong somewhere.

    Malaysia has always try to play by her own rules. We make our own rules, and when people beat us at our own game, we cry foul. Stupid isn’t it? 2 big examples, currency collapse in 1997 and AFTA. Yes, blame Soros for making our lives difficult, but he won against the game fair and square. If you say “Let’s gamble, but I cannot lose” then <3 *handshakes* to you.

    Yes, we have this so-called special ‘privileges’ for Bumiputras in Malaysia. Is that fair for other races? NO. Does this Non-Equality work for Malaysia? Yes. History has proven it. On personal level, some people/groups may find this is terribly unfair. But it has been a winning formula for Malaysia all these years. Why risk it for a change that we’re not sure if it will work or not?

    Oh yes, the winning formula. What contributes to the winning formula? Doesn’t the winning formula have to adapt to times and changes? The only winning parties here are the government, the people in power(non-Malays) and the Malays. It’s like a corrosion, slowly eating its way to the core. When it hits the centre, my analogy of volcanic eruption can be used.

    People have adopt this winning formula rather reluctantly. It’s like the saying, if you cant fight it, join it. Examples are the missionary schools in Malaysia. Thank God the government is taking measures to help those schools. Some old schools, faced with crumbling walls and ancient structures, have to “convert” to Malay schools in order to get funding for rebuilding and equipment purchase.

    Indonesia has long practised its so-called “PANCASILA” (since its independence): equality for everyone. No privileges to anybody. What happens then? Indonesia forms an extremely fragmented society. Certain races are super-RICH, while others are super-POOR. Certain races have been freely allowed to dominate others — in the name of liberalism/capitalism: “equal opportunity for everyone based on the principle of survival of the fittest”. What Indonesia government doesn’t realise is — not everyone naturally has an EQUAL ability to compete fairly in a totally free world. Why is it so? Because the previous colonist (i.e. Dutch) had literally fucked up the social structure of this country during the ‘invasion era’ (exactly as what British did to Malaysia; and American to Philippines).

    You are talking about a severe mental group of people over there aka FANATICS. Using the power of religion to raise mobs is troubling. Oh yes, let’s get into the topic of discussion of uneducated people and educated people. You see, uneducated people are satisfied with their current status. How about the educated Indonesians(the non-Chinese)? Did they do anything to wrestle the economy back from the Chinese? It’s all corruption over there. If you want to blame anybody, blame the damn Suharto government and the corrupted Indonesians there. Like I said in my previous post before, as long there is security and opportunities, Chinese will mind their own business and do their own stuff.

    Jihad. What a beautiful word. Except it is sickening to hear those Indonesians talking about it. Abusing the word in the name of religion. Go figure.

    Can we change history? NO. This is something we can’t help. But, we surely can plan for a better future. And, I personally think that Malaysia has done it better. Malaysia had only one minor incident in May 13 (back in 1969) — and that was it. Look at Indonesia. As recent as late 90s — ‘ethnic cleansing’ and ‘civil war’ were still very common. During the economic turmoil in 1998ish — hundreds of ******* Indonesians were brutally killed and terrorised by ***** Indonesians. Why? Because people had gotten bitter and angry for years — and the economic turmoil had not only intensified it, but also provided an opportunity for these bitter people to act their anger! And, how many hundreds/thousands more innocent people got killed in the Kalimantan and Makasar civil wars? Apparently, the EQUAL APPROACH (adopted by Indonesian government) had terribly failed to make the historically-fucked-up-social-structure getting truly EQUAL. In fact, the mechanism has made the social structure even more fragmented. Think about it.

    History is all about learning from it. Why has the government these past few years try to bring in new blood and having more transparency in their dealings? Because racial tensions in Malaysia has increased to a point 1969 may repeat itself. Face it, it’s a fact that THERE ARE A LOT of racial tensions in Malaysia. The government has moved in the right direction, but its still in its teething period. Indonesia itself has to be blamed, especially the damn ***** leaders, the farking corrupted ones. And the ***** ones channeled their anger in the wrong way.

    All these years, the current policy has worked well for Malaysia as a nation-state, why gamble it for a change? Although, I must admit that this policy has not perfectly worked well for everyone, on individual level — not only less favourable for non-bumi i.e. Chinese/Indian, but also for ‘minority bumi’. I’m a Sabahan bumiputera — technically and constitutionally should be granted the same privilege as the dominant Malays do enjoy. But in reality, this doesn’t usually happen. So, on personal level — the current policy neither do favour me, nor put me in any better position than Chinese/Indian. Thus, I have some bitterness and anger (deep inside!) — just like some of you here.

    No comments, topic on the gamble for a change has been discussed above.

    Having said that: do I fancy a change and adopting the similar approach like the so-called “Indonesian Pancasila” (EQUALITY=MERITOCRACY)? No, thank you. Why? Because, I’m not selfish. Just because the policy doesn’t work for me (and some other people) — doesn’t mean it has fucked up the entire nation. I learn history, and I understand what ‘a winning formula’ means. Getting it right on a national level is not that easy. In order to get one thing right — sometimes, we may need to sacrifice other thing. But at the end of the day — it’s the overall result that really counts.

    Indonesia is totally a f***ed up country as I see it. It is corrupted, overpopulated, hugely imbalanced in wealth and racial statistics, having people with wrong mentality etc etc. Only way to solve it is to have a GREAT BIG FLOOD and cleanse everything inside out, and like Noah’s Ark, start out fresh again. Otherwise, it has no viable and foreseeable solution to every aspect of the country. No no, we can never take Indonesia into our discussion anymore. It’s a totally different world out there.

    Right, I understand that things are going fine in Malaysia, why upset the balance and destroy everything we have worked so hard for? And on a hyper grand scale things are not easily achieved. The national school proposal was a good idea, start out with the future generation and then nurture this “love love” feeling among us all. But it is always bound to fail when suggested by one-sided thinking government officials. Why can’t they ever get some young intelligent people to discuss about it? There are plenty of them out there, waiting to give their feedbacks and ideas for a better Malaysia, but noooooo, the “old” people has to be in charge. And this leads to frustrations among them, knowing that they can do something(or a lot of things) for the greater good of Malaysia, but not given the chances. It’s a new generation now, you can’t possibly force us to accept everything and “be grateful for what Malaysia has blessed you with”. How to be world class achievers when you start out demotivated and disadvantaged?

    How many people get killed in UK and USA each year because of racism hatred? Do these two countries practise EQUALITY (as Indonesia does)? YES, they do — very STRICTLY indeed! How many people get killed in Malaysia for the same reason (if there’s any)? If you really want to measure RACISM — the valid indicator is not by simplistically analysing THE STATIC POLICY (the centre of Shaolin’s argument), but it should be based on REAL INCIDENTS. And, please don’t rely too much on cosmetic cases/examples — which based on your friends/families/neighbours experiences. A mere 20-incidents doesn’t reflect the actual reality of Malaysia, does it?

    The conservatives have this mentality, I-am-greater-than-thou and hence you-should-be-treated-like-trash.The ones bullied will retaliate and leads to killings on both sides. Talking about Malaysia, Chinese will not disturb other races except if only they are disturbed themselves. Chinese gangsters, they wont go hacking other races unless violent conduct are done against them. And Malays, they are happy with what they have; although jealousy still happens, the government and the environment is taking care of them. Other minorities are just grateful to be in a peaceful situation, hence we have a win-win peaceful country for the time being. The non-Malays never and will never ever like to touch on “sensitive” issues which will undermine the harmonious situation we are in now, but it has to be addressed at one stage in the future.

    All said in this argument, Malaysia needs to change its outlook on racial integration. Focusing on absurd ideas like singing the national anthem in CINEMAS!!!!! Etc etc is a load of crap, but needs more thought into the future generation group. And it needs more dynamic planning and execution, with more consideration on the minority side. My mistake, I forgot there are still a lot of conservative officials in the government who are stubborn and adopts the old fashion mentality.

    I am sorry if I sound like a ***** hater and ungrateful bastard; in fact I just want a better future for everyone else. But unknowingly to a lot of people, racial tensions will build up if nothing is done about this racial biasness. Well, you can say ignorance is bliss for the current generation, but we should be looking at the long term product rather than the short term, aye? Maybe the government should have a “Youth Voice”, “Young Adults Voice” etc etc(you get my point) and sit and listen to them. Pemuda Umno is making great progress for Umno itself, but how about non-Umno people? Surely if we can all work together, we can achieve greater heights?

    If only everyone would sit down together and discuss and listen. If only.

  12. REM June 4, 2005 at 10:25 pm #

    I’m responding to the statements in (*) — quoted from the “Overseas Student In UK”.

    * Tell you some truths, you know about the BTN(Biro Tata Negara) camps which tries to brainwash you into being patriotic? What was revealed there is utterly shocking, the main threats to destabilizing the country are: Chinese businessmen (Indians not included due to the small amount of them) and Christianity. What kind of hatred are we talking about, after almost 50 years of Independence?????

    Give me in detail what has been done in BTN? And, justify it with ONE GOOD REASON why it is “utterly shocking”. Any specific example? I would like to know. If one doesn’t specify it and just keep speculating — that would cultivate more and more unnecessary hatred.

    *Saying that life is fair in Malaysia and we have equal rights. The truth is, we are still looked at with contempt. And usually who says this? The politicians and religious leaders, the ones who should have at least done something to integrate all Malaysians together.

    Of course, total equality still doesn’t exist in Malaysia. But does it exist anywhere else in the world? Give me one good example if there’s any. We must measure fairness based on our own circumstances. As I put it in the previous post — the social structure in Malaysia was so-fucked-up during the colonial era — and, the formula that Malaysia has adopted is mainly to try balancing up everything. Does it work? YES. It is the best way? May be not. But it works much better than Indonesia. That’s the main thing.

    * Dude, it’s the damn European Constitution. How about us exporting goods overseas and in ASEAN countries? Or even education? Asian/Africans — we are the foreigners there, and of course should be subjected to some “penalty” functions.

    You neither rebut nor explain my point. I clearly said — that point was just an example to put things in perspective. Nothing to do specifically about Malaysia. It was just some insight of the whole thing about this ‘racism’ — in general. Just to explain how complex the issue is.

    * Skip this please, we should not be looking at external matters, and stick something closer to Malaysia, like Malaysia itself. Right, how about Chinese and Indians helping Malaya to rise to what is now Malaysia with its PETRONAS TWIN TOWERS, etc, and to rub it in, MALAYSIA BOLEH? Is this what the non-bumiputras get in return? Baseless argument and contradictory.

    Excuse me — tell me one good example why the way UK treats Asian/African students is comparable to the way Malaysia treats the non-bumi? Under the historical circumstances — Malaysia has treated its non-bumi (read as ‘immigrant’) reasonably fair. I’m not blaming the immigrants (because they were brought by the colonist), but the fact is: Chinese and Indian had significantly slowed down the independence process of Malaya. If not because of this social complexity – Malaya could have its independence much earlier. (I don’t mean to put this in a rude way). The indigenous people, right after the independent, had the choice whether to accept or ask these immigrants to return where they came from (at that time, this was perfectly acceptable and compliant with the international rules because these immigrants were brought and worked for the colonist — British). PELASE DON’T GET THIS WRONG. IM TALKING ABOUT THE HISTROY — NOT NOW!

    However, the indigenous people choose to accept them permanently — and, of course it came with ‘that price’ (the privilege for bumis). I think that’s politically, socially and economically sensible. YES, after the independence — we all (Bumi, Chinese, Indian) have worked together to build Malaysia. However, during the pre-independent era, these immigrants working purely for the colonist. In fact, they didn’t even fight for the “independence” as hard as the indigenous people did — either in Malaya, Sabah or Sarawak. I’m not saying they didn’t contribute anything — but relatively speaking, the efforts were ‘much less’. Am I making this an excuse to say that Chinese and Indian are less-Malaysian, thus deserve less from this country? HELL, no! I’m just trying to put the historical facts into a clear perspective. Why? Because this is where our arguments should start. After 50 years — should we still retain the same policies? I’ll answer that in my next argument.

    *Malaysia has always try to play by her own rules. We make our own rules, and when people beat us at our own game, we cry foul. Stupid isn’t it? 2 big examples, currency collapse in 1997 and AFTA. Yes, blame Soros for making our lives difficult, but he won against the game fair and square.

    Irrelevant to my point. Anyway, talking about Soros — YES, he and his currency trading mechanism DID PLAY some roles in the currency collapse in 1997. That’s why even the UN has taken some measures to control this so-called currency trading. Thanks to Dr. M for ‘crying foul’.

    * Oh yes, the winning formula. What contributes to the winning formula? Doesn’t the winning formula have to adapt to times and changes? It’s like the saying, if you cant fight it, join it. Examples are the missionary schools in Malaysia. Thank God the government is taking measures to help those schools. Some old schools, faced with crumbling walls and ancient structures, have to “convert” to Malay schools in order to get funding for rebuilding and equipment purchase.

    This is once again a rather ignorant argument. Are you suggesting that “the winning formula” has never been and will never be changed? Funny. There are many privileges that the bumiputeras did enjoy in the past — were no longer granted. The government for the past 10 years has changed most of the bumi-related policies into something more open and accessible by other races. Example? Places in the local universities and boarding schools have been increased. The restructuring of the matriculation system. Reducing/changing the compulsory-allocated quota for bumi in job recruitments, etc. Yes, EQUALITY is yet there. But the process is taking place. What you are suggesting (in your post) is ‘RELUCTANT FOR CHANGE and AS IF THE WINNING FORMULA IS STATIC’. That’s a bit bull$hit, isn’t it?

    You are talking about missionary schools — how about ‘sekolah pondok’? Do you think that government give support for sekolah pondok? How about Sekolah Agama Rakyat (SAR)? Thank God, half of them had been closed for the last 5 years alone. And some of the SARs have merged with the normal Sekolah Kebangsaan — in order to get funding. How about the teaching of tribal languages at school (i.e. Iban, Kadazan, Suluk) — do you think that the government has placed enough attention to this? Come on. Be realistic! You can’t measure fairness based on what happening around you, which is directly affected you. Malaysia can’t do everything for everyone. If that’s what you call unfairness and racism — then, fine. Unfairness is everywhere, and it DOES affect NOT only Non-bumi or Non-muslim — but other groups too, including the dominant ones! Therefore, the use of ‘cosmetic examples’ is not valid to justify a bigger argument, which represents a particular national scenario.

    * You are talking about a severe mental group of people over there aka FANATICS. Using the power of religion to raise mobs is troubling. How about the educated Indonesians (the non-Chinese)? Did they do anything to wrestle the economy back from the Chinese? It’s all corruption over there. If you want to blame anybody, blame the damn Suharto government and the corrupted Indonesians there. Like I said in my previous post before, as long there is security and opportunities, Chinese will mind their own business and do their own stuff.

    Rubbish point (and, I didn’t imply that Chinese would harm anyone in my pervious post. For the Indonesia case, they were the one that got terrorised by the local people!). What had happened in Indonesia was something deeper than just “some uneducated people”. The killing of that scale would never happen if it was only involved a “few hundreds of uneducated people”. It was about the entire society and how wrong the Pancasila approach had been! (Pancasila = Total Equality). You should read the specific incidents in Indonesia (please!), work out the scale and try to get the real picture. I’m not talking about 10 thousands of people get killed. It was far larger than that: i.e. the incidents in Jakarta, Acheh, Kalimantan, Papua New Guinea, Ambon and Makasar.

    *History is all about learning from it. Why has the government these past few years try to bring in new blood and having more transparency in their dealings? Because racial tensions in Malaysia has increased to a point 1969 may repeat itself. Face it, it’s a fact that THERE ARE A LOT of racial tensions in Malaysia. The government has moved in the right direction, but its still in its teething period. Indonesia itself has to be blamed, especially the damn ***** leaders, the farking corrupted ones. And the ***** ones channeled their anger in the wrong way.

    Yes, learn from history — and what is the best history for Malaysia to learn from other than the history of Indonesia. Why? Because we have EXACTLY the same background, and the similar pattern of race distribution. Our social structures had been fucked up by the British/Dutch colonists and we had no choice but to adopt a system that would be able to put the balance back to its equilibrium. You are either naturally born naïve or intellectually trying to appear stupid — if you genuinely think that what happens in Indonesia is nothing more than just:

    “especially the damn ***** leaders, the farking corrupted ones. And the ***** ones channeled their anger in the wrong way”.

    The main problem with Indonesia is — they are so obsessed with EQUALITY for EVERYONE, right from the beginning of its independence. And, the so-called “equality-oriented policies” had (and still has) fucked up the already-historically-fucked social fragmentation. This is where it all starts! The system and approach fucked up. Thus, it produced a fucked-up society — socially, economically and politically.

    *Indonesia is totally a f***ed up country as I see it. It is corrupted, overpopulated, hugely imbalanced in wealth and racial statistics, having people with wrong mentality etc etc. Only way to solve it is to have a GREAT BIG FLOOD and cleanse everything inside out, and like Noah’s Ark, start out fresh again. Otherwise, it has no viable and foreseeable solution to every aspect of the country. No no, we can never take Indonesia into our discussion anymore. It’s a totally different world out there.

    NOPE. The problems in Indonesia are NOT EXCLUSIVELY attributed to its geographical features. And, Indonesia is the best historical comparison for Malaysia. Yes, it is corrupted, overpopulated, hugely imbalanced in wealth and racial statistics, having people with wrong mentality. BUT WHEN Indonesia was granted its independence only few years earlier than Malaysia — all those problems didn’t even exist! Indonesia and Malaysia were totally in the same situation at that time. So, why these two nations ending up very differently? Because they adopt two different formulas. Our formula works. Indonesia didn’t. So, why do we need to change ours into something similar to what Indonesia had applied?

    *How to be world class achievers when you start out demotivated and disadvantaged?

    How many times I need to stress this point? Malaysia has to INITIALLY make some people get ‘disadvantaged’, in order to get the right balance (out from the fucked-up society left by the British colonist). We don’t want to be like Indonesia. Indonesia started by trying very hard to make everyone equally advantaged; and, sadly ending up getting the GAP BIGGER and LARGER. And please remember — the current policies (advantages to Bumi) is changing through time. UKM, USM, UPM have no longer got matriculation centres. UM is reducing the size of its “bumi-only science foundation centre” and it reportedly will soon disappear. OK, this in on education. In other sectors, the same ‘reducing process’ is happening too (do you really follow the current affairs in Malaysia as far as socio-economic policies are concerned?). One may argue — WE COULD MAKE THE PROCESS FASTER and MAKE EVERYONE EQUAL RIGHT NOW. How idealistic! Are we that desperate to speed up the process and risking it altogether? It’s true that some people are not comfortable and happy with the current situation. Yes, we all know this. But, this is FAR BETTER than having a genocide ethnic cleansing and civil wars like in Indonesia!

    *The conservatives have this mentality, I-am-greater-than-thou and hence you-should-be-treated-like-trash. The ones bullied will retaliate and leads to killings on both sides. Talking about Malaysia, Chinese will not disturb other races except if only they are disturbed themselves. Chinese gangsters, they wont go hacking other races unless violent conduct are done against them. And Malays, they are happy with what they have; although jealousy still happens, the government and the environment is taking care of them. Other minorities are just grateful to be in a peaceful situation, hence we have a win-win peaceful country for the time being. The non-Malays never and will never ever like to touch on “sensitive” issues which will undermine the harmonious situation we are in now, but it has to be addressed at one stage in the future.

    Yes very true. And, actually this is the kind of sentiments that has saved us all from killing each other like what had happened in our neighbouring country. And thanks to the policies! Yes the policies are unfair. Some get disadvantaged. Some are more privileged. But the end result — most people (even not ALL) are REASONABLY (even not PERFECTLY) happy.

    *All said in this argument, Malaysia needs to change its outlook on racial integration.

    Yes, Malaysia needs to change its outlook — I couldn’t agree more. But I’m TOTALLY against with the core idea of the original post (this blog). He is implicitly calling for drastic change and TOTAL EQUALITY. How anyone can be so sure that it will work better than the current system? I would rather see some Malays/Bumis being lazy and less productive — than creating a group of bumiputeras who are “bitter enough” to terrorise other people! Don’t take things for granted — and thinking that Malaysia will never be a second Indonesia even if we change the current system. What we have now is NOT PERFECT — but, it’s neither a total fucked-up, is it?

  13. suanie June 5, 2005 at 12:07 am #

    REM, the ‘hidden’ truth in your argument amazes me. I am just writing to say that I greatly enjoyed reading your comments. If history were to be dragged into this I’m happy that someone understands how and why its past social implications is affecting our country today. Cheers.

  14. Jaja June 5, 2005 at 4:00 am #

    racial integration will never exist. if you come to this side of the causeway you better make sure you’re chinese. lol

  15. Overseas Student In UK June 5, 2005 at 4:43 am #

    Very nicely argued by REM. Kudos to him!

    However, I would like to add a few things:
    - I have a few examples, but it is not proper to reveal them over here, for the fear of jeopardizing my future. Many Malays know me well and events which these things occurred are very specific with a small number of participants, so if you want to assume its speculative from my part, so be it.

    - I am not talking about changing instantaneously to equal rights. One new system will never ever be able to be executed overnight. And this special rights will stay like this for the next 50 years I would say. Talk about the Vision2020, is it achievable? Realistically, no! Yes, the government has taken huge steps in providing for everyone, but sad to say, it still have not met its own expectations time and time again. Thats what I want to say, the government has failed in many areas and must not rest on their laurels saying that they have done enough. Mindsets evolve, so does the need of national policies.

    - Talking about UK, locals receive special benefits right? ITS LOCALS, and are Asians/Africans locals? Are they localised yet? Please do not use the UK argument anymore as we are talking about citizens of a certain country, not immigrants with foreign passports. The non-Malays are citizens of Malaysia, why is there still racial biasness?

    - Crying foul over Soros? In business terms, he has done perfectly well, and should deserve the best award for business venture. Beating people at their own game, how wonderful! Unless if you consider the social aspect.

    - Looking at history will never help. Learning from it will. Yes, Malaysia has adapted well for the first 20-30 years, but then can we say complacency took over? All I am saying is that when the government promises things, they should be carried out, not spurting excuses over and over again. We vote for BN not because we like it, but it because its the best candidate COMPARED to the others. We are accepting something that we does not favour, but with the lack of choice(and security reasons we do so).

    - Malaysia should not only be happy with what she has achieve! Where is the progressive mentality, the drive to success? Overseas? Brain-drain term sounds familiar? Yes, local graduates are good compared to overseas ones, but we combine all of them together, we have something better right? Racial biasness keeps them away from returning. The government has acknowledged it, has proposed special benefits to them as an incentive to return, but after the minor initial bait, what happens next? Still discriminated racially?

    - Why look to Indonesia and make examples out of her when the whole problem is talking about Malaysia and her racial biasness? The previous post argument is extremely weak in terms of our personal views. You are saying, let’s accept our fate because our neighbours have worse conditions to live in. And its more like, why change since we have a relatively safe and luxurious lifestyle COMPARED to Indonesia. Comparisons between 2 countries are useless, hope readers will understand. The problem concerns us, us and only us, not our neighbouring countries. If you want to bring it into argument again, take Singapore and her leaps and bounds in progress. Quote from many Singaporeans and Malay official, “All Malaysian Chinese always want to be Singaporean Chinese since there are no racial biasness”. How sad.

    - Don’t mock me on my general knowledge and current understandings on local Malaysian issues. I suck at structuring arguments since this is my first ever comment on anyone’s bloggings, and it was after some frustrating farking DOTA games which I lost(ask ShaolinTiger). On the uni places, small reduction to bumi priority does bullcrap if you ask me. If you talk about equal terms, I bet only 10% of uni entrants are Malays. How can you farking compare Matriculation and STPM or A levels? They are miles ahead dude! And how do you explain lecturers handing out answer sheets(or questions) in mosque after their prayers? And yet they still fail their exams!

    - Yes, the academics and the intelligent people of the majority race realised this, and they are implementing changes to integrate all of us, but they are the small minority ones doing so. The problem lies with farking government officials and corrupted leaders. This is one of the source I am trying to bring up, but it seems not to have taken off.

    - I don’t know whether you remembered that when BN won the 1999 elections, the Chinese community wanted an extra post in Cabinet. What happened? What was Pemuda Umno’s reaction? If these are the kind of future leaders we are talking about to solve this racial biasness problem, I am afraid we can all pack our bags and start the exodus.

    - How about this revealing fact: Tenaga Nasional Berhad(TNB) have adopted this sickening policy of not giving out tenders to non-Malays? Yes, you heard it right, Datuk J(former “captain” of the Parliament backbenchers who leads them in throwing trash and stationaries at opposition speakers in the Parliament) actually does it. And he is in the Cabinet now. Nepotism? Do you think racial problems will be lessened with this kind of mentality?

    - We should not be happy with what we are at, currently. It’s no more “take it, or leave it”, “if you can’t beat it, join it” situations anymore. ShaolinTiger is only merely stating his observations on the matter, he is also emphatizing with the minority races. Why can’t the ***** look at things from their opposite counterparts’ point of view? Change roles for a period of time, and see what is really going on. You never understand unless you are put in the same situation.

    - Quote :”How anyone can be so sure that it will work better than the current system? I would rather see some Malays/Bumis being lazy and less productive — than creating a group of bumiputeras who are “bitter enough” to terrorise other people! Don’t take things for granted — and thinking that Malaysia will never be a second Indonesia even if we change the current system. What we have now is NOT PERFECT — but, it’s neither a total fucked-up, is it?” /Unquote.
    Resting on our backsides and accepting fate is mentally degrading for intellectuals.
    Playing an unfair game when the rules are:
    1.you have to play a game
    2.this game is unfair and you know it
    3.there is no other games
    4.if you are winning, the rules will be changed to reduce to limit your winning chances
    5.if you are losing, changes are promised but never carried out.

    Over the past 15 years, the progress of reducing racial biasness has stagnanted, its only revived when Malaysia tries it luck at the “Globalization” arena. How much progress has been made? Face it, it’s a losing battle we are faced with. So are we now to embrace our “not perfect but not farked up system” with open arms? Mentality like this will never take us anywhere. Sure, drastic changes are abhorred, but at least the government will have more transparencies and do more to eliminate the sources of the this blog’s topic?

    - Speaking on local universities again(I must, since someone said I am ignorant due to the fact I am overseas right now), why are local grads earning some real bad reputations and unable to find work? Go look at the “hidden” facts : Do you know how that there are so damn many graduates majoring in courses like Islamic studies, more Islamic studies, Arab Languages, non-productive courses to the nation? You’ll be surprised, as this people cannot find any jobs due to their lack of working skills and ethics and beneficial mindset in a purely working environment. That is why the government proposed a double major to equip local grads with the right skills a couple of years back. It was a major issue, and caused a major furore over the quality of local grads, when it is mostly targetted at this group. Local grads are not rown upon and are about the same quality as overseas ones except in exposure, but we are talking about those who take initiatives to improve. Most Chinese grads will never ever have problems looking for jobs; in fact some even have more than 1 job offers. This matter about local grads is still hotly discussed in The Star newspaper. Take a look at it will ya? Now, what if all citizens of Malaysia were to compete on equal conditions and equal rights? I am sure you know the answer, but it will never ever happen. Give me a UNITAR Chinese student over a non-Chinese UM student anytime in industries anytime, thank you sir!

    Well, all this frustrations cannot change anything, but it saddens me that fake images of a wonderful Malaysia is painted on the media. They can deceive the majority, but deception will never last long unless the government do take a lot more measures into this. And where is the damn Young Adults Voice gonna be carried out?!!! Jeez, until now the government is still too stupid(!) to realise that we are the future generation of leaders and listen to us or at least give us a channel to convey our thoughts to.

    Kudos to REM and ShaolinTiger again. It’s just that I see things differently from REM but no malice against him whatsoever. No one is right or wrong, just that your own way of thinking.

  16. vincent June 5, 2005 at 4:46 am #

    REM : Awesome argument about Indonesia. I have always included an example of Indonesia and their racial riots in 1997 when talking about equal rights, but your citing of examples are great.

    Overseas student in UK : I think it is sad that you feel so strongly about it. You let slip your real intentions when you said “It’s a new generation now, you can’t possibly force us to accept everything and “be grateful for what Malaysia has blessed you with”. How to be world class achievers when you start out demotivated and disadvantaged?”

    Speak for yourself. I accept it. I may not like it, but I accept it. For the greater good…and getting a piggyback ride off REM arguments, I won’t post my own here…..quite simply, we are not ready for ‘equality’. You speak as if Malaysia has done nothing for you. As if they have prevented you from getting to where you are now.

    I do have an interesting thing to note about Singapore since it was mentioned by Jaja in the previous comment. 9/10 Singaporeans I know don’t know what ‘halal’ food is and don’t know about Ramadhan.

    Be thankful for things we have. We have a society that knows about other people’s culture and celebrates all cultural celebrations. We may not love each other madly, but we do TOLERATE each other. So, instead of feeling ‘dismotivated and disadvantaged’, how about feeling thankful for the little things that we have?

  17. dawg June 5, 2005 at 6:24 am #

    reply to REM

    **Of course, total equality still doesn’t exist in Malaysia. But does it exist anywhere else in the world? Give me one good example if there’s any. We must measure fairness based on our own circumstances. As I put it in the previous post — the social structure in Malaysia was so-fucked-up during the colonial era — and, the formula that Malaysia has adopted is mainly to try balancing up everything. Does it work? YES. It is the best way? May be not. But it works much better than Indonesia. That’s the main thing.**

    By your logic, the failure of the Indonesian pancasila system somehow vindicates the Malaysian government’s policy of discrimination. Why Indonesia specifically, may I ask? Contrary to your claim, Indonesia and Malaysia does not have “ EXACTLY” the same historical background nor do the proportion of the Chinese and Indian populations in Indonesia correspond to that of Malaysia. Singapore on the other hand holds a more direct parallel to Malaysia; demographics notwithholding, and had only achieved their nationhood 6 years later than we did; would you say then that the Singaporean brand of meritocracy is the superior system considering the performance of their economy and the similar lack of; and I quote, “REAL INCIDENCES” of racial conflict?

    Yours is a disconnected and therefore false analogy.

    **Excuse me — tell me one good example why the way UK treats Asian/African students is comparable to the way Malaysia treats the non-bumi? Under the historical circumstances — Malaysia has treated its non-bumi (read as ‘immigrant’) reasonably fair. I’m not blaming the immigrants (because they were brought by the colonist)***

    Absolutely brilliant. Within the space of a few simple sentences you have just proven beyond all doubt that you are the living, breathing embodiment of the failure of our education system.

    Here’s some news for you then. You, the so-called bumiputeras, aren’t the original inhabitants of the Malay archipelago. That’s right. You lot are actually members of the mongoloid family that came all the way down from Western and Southern China (read as ‘immigrants’) thousands of years ago. The Orang Asli actually predate Malay settlement but for some odd reason aren’t recognised as Bumiputeras under Federal Law (a case of if they are, then you’re not!). So now we have a curious situation where a group of immigrants are demanding special privileges and rights over another group of immigrants. Hypocrisy is an ironic little thing isn’t it?

    Hah! I’m really going to enjoy the next one!

    ****but the fact is: Chinese and Indian had significantly slowed down the independence process of Malaya. If not because of this social complexity – Malaya could have its independence much earlier. (I don’t mean to put this in a rude way). The indigenous people, right after the independent, had the choice whether to accept or ask these immigrants to return where they came from (at that time, this was perfectly acceptable and compliant with the international rules because these immigrants were brought and worked for the colonist — British). PELASE DON’T GET THIS WRONG. IM TALKING ABOUT THE HISTROY — NOT NOW!***

    “Slowed down the independence process”? Just what are you trying to say? That the presence of the Chinese and the Indians somehow sabotaged the purely-Malay effort to gain independence? That we, the ‘immigrants’, prefer to suck on the British hind-tit as opposed to governing ourselves?

    I suppose that you know about the history of the Second World War? Well enough, at least, to know that the overwhelmingly Chinese MPAJA (the latent ‘communist terrorists’ of the post WW2 era) were the most significant resistance movement during the Japanese occupation? The majority of the Bumiputeras (of course they didn’t have bumiputeras back then, we were all Malayans) didn’t seem to mind the new conquerors all that much; in fact, they openly collaborated with the Japanese administration en masse, at least in the initial stages of the occupation. But hey that’s all in the past right?

    Oh, and the so-called communist emergency? Another noteworthy attempt by the overwhelmingly Chinese CPA to wrest full independence (albeit with a communist system of governance) for Malaya from a British administration that had shown no previous inclination of doing so. Even the Tunku had acknowledged that the CPA’s insurrection had played a major if indirect role in hastening the timetable for independence!

    A word of advice before you deem to call someone else ignorant, you really ought to at least try and verify your “history”(sic) with independent sources instead of simply regurgitating the sanitized government-approved version found in your SPM textbooks. In think you’ll find that it makes for a much more enlightened debate all around.

    I’ll need to get back to you on your other points… sleep beckons.

  18. REM June 5, 2005 at 8:41 am #

    Thanks to “Overseas Student in UK”. Yes, I actually do agree with most of your points/arguments. But the use of too many ‘cosmetic, speculative and hypothetical’ examples/cases to exaggerate some of the arguments is a bit intolerable for me. And about the BTN thing — don’t make a real big deal out of it unless you’re really sure of what is happening there (i.e. listen to all parties — and not only to some of your so-called ‘Malay friends’). I had undertaken such courses too (not the exact BTN but something with the same aim and nature). Yes, the use of the concept – “WE and THEY” – was introduced in that course. But, to say that it was “utterly shocking” (whatever that means) — is totally biased. Are you suggesting that all these programs are implemented to produce Malay chauvinists that would hate the Non-bumi? The main aims for BTN are:

    - To make this lazy Bumis realise how advanced the No-Bumis have been.
    - Thus, these Bumis must improve their competitiveness against their fellow Non-Bumi Malaysians.
    - Why? Because SOONER or LATER, all the privileges granted to Bumis, will be taken out. The system can’t retain it FOREVER!

    However, with the wrong approach (by individual facilitators) or if taken out of context (by the participants): the aims could sound/appear like propaganda to hate the Non-Bumis.

    *Quoted: “Many Malays know me well and events which these things occurred are very specific with a small number of participants, so if you want to assume its speculative from my part, so be it. “

    I could speculate too, many theories and circumstances that could demonstrate how the Non-Bumi conspires against the Bumi. A lot of incidents and specific examples, which had been experienced by some of my friends or family members. But why would I need to drag them here? Cosmetic example is not a valid representation of the actual reality. I earned my first degree at Malaysian local university (Thank God!) — where I learned that an argument must be supported by a representative case. Don’t they teach this kind of logical thinking in the UK universities?

    *Quoted: “The non-Malays are citizens of Malaysia, why is there still racial biasness?”

    Biasness is not always a bad thing. Sometimes, it is a MUST ingredient to make a particular system works properly and successful. Do I need to re-STRESS my historical argument? The British colonist had fucked up our social structure — which historically produced several fragmentation of race with ‘different level of ability to compete’. Thus, an appropriate means had to be applied to balance this up. Back in the 19th century: immigrants were naturally more well-equipped (mentally and materially) to compete in a particular society. (I reserve my Indonesia case for the moment) That’s why in countries like USA, Australia, New Zealand and some in Africa (which NEVER APPLY special ‘privileges’ to the ingenious people) — the immigrants have totally dominated everything. Look at what have happened to the Red Indians, the aborigines and the native Kiwis. Until now these minorities are still struggling — not only ECONOMICALLY, but SOCIALLY and POLITICALLY. Most of them don’t even have access to the VERY BASIC RIGHT. They are also legal citizens of those countries, aren’t they? You may argue — we’re talking about us, Malaysia — not other countries. My point is — no races are STRUGGLING as such in Malaysia. Why? Our system works. OUR SYSTEM DOES WORK.

    *Quoted: “Why look to Indonesia and make examples out of her when the whole problem is talking about Malaysia and her racial biasness? The previous post argument is extremely weak in terms of our personal views. You are saying, let’s accept our fate because our neighbours have worse conditions to live in.”

    No. I don’t promote the attitude, “let’s accept our fate because our neighbours have worse conditions to live in”. I said — our system has worked better than theirs. Therefore, if we want to make A CHANGE — it must be done gradually, slowly and with extra careful. Things are changing. We have representatives from MCA and MIC in the government. They also contribute to the “making and changing” of our current policies. Give me one good reason why your and Shaolin’s points of view are more acceptable than these Chineses/Indians in the government? Yes, on personal level, you have every right to be bitter and angry. I myself do have the same feel sometimes. But my point here is — we can’t use the personal sentiment of 50 individuals to make a national policy.

    Regarding the use of Indonesia as the comparison — I won’t step back with my belief that comparison with other countries (with a similar historical background) is crucial to make this issue clear. At least this is not A COSMETIC EXAMPLE. It’s something REAL and a VERY LARGE-SCALE incident. And, as far as this comparison is concerned — Indonesia is the best for Malaysia, NOT Singapore. Let’s agree to disagree on this one.

    *Quoted: “We should not be happy with what we are at, currently. It’s no more “take it, or leave it”, “if you can’t beat it, join it” situations anymore. ShaolinTiger is only merely stating his observations on the matter, he is also emphatizing with the minority races. Why can’t the ***** look at things from their opposite counterparts’ point of view? Change roles for a period of time, and see what is really going on. You never understand unless you are put in the same situation.”

    Let me rephrase these rhetorical questions in a reverse manner — “Do you and Shaolin really have looked at things from your opposite counterparts’ point of view?” Do you really empathise the bumiputeras? People may argue that “the playing field” is now LEVEL for everyone. Thus, a more dramatic change should be implemented on the so-called racial biasness (i.e. privileges to the Malay). How naïve that thought is. Talking about economy and social achievement — who are the majority in the bottom 30% and the top 30%? Get the picture?

    Let me stress this point again: The British colonist had FUCKED UP the social structure and racial balance in Malaysia SO-DAMN-TERRIBLY BAD — that it will take more than 60-70 years to get it back into a reasonable equilibrium (yes, I mean to say REASONABLE, not even PERFECT).

    *Quoted: “How about this revealing fact: Tenaga Nasional Berhad (TNB) have adopted this sickening policy of not giving out tenders to non-Malays?”

    Oh yeah? How about some Non-Bumi companies (Chinese especially) adopting the policy of recruiting/favouring only Mandarin-speaking applicants? My native language is neither Malay nor English. My parents have never thought me any of these languages at home. To learn two new languages at school is difficult enough and a real nightmare. And now, some Malaysians are telling me that I have to learn one more language in order to have an EQUAL opportunity in job hunting. But well, why should I need to get bitter over this issue? Being a bumi, I have my own advantage. And, let the non-bumis have their owns. That is how REAL LIFE works. I may GET VERY BITTER and ANGRY experiencing such situation if I have never been granted an advantage on other thing.

    *Quoted: “The problem lies with farking government officials and corrupted leaders. This is one of the source I am trying to bring up, but it seems not to have taken off.”

    Yes, corrupted leaders. Good point. And, who are corrupting these leaders? All those people with BIG MONEY and HUGE CAPITAL. Bribing is everywhere. Yes, everyone bribes everyone. But if we really want to GENERALISE — we can identify who are the main BRIBERS, and who are the main BRIBEES. There’s nothing racism about this. ALL MAJOR RACES are equally playing their own roles!

    * Quoted: “I don’t know whether you remembered that when BN won the 1999 elections, the Chinese community wanted an extra post in Cabinet. What happened?”

    Chinese are overwhelmingly dominating the economy. Wouldn’t it an appropriate move to let other races to have a better edge on politics? One may argue — the Chinese dominates the economy through a level-playing field. Fair game. NO, that’s NOT true. The British colonist had historically made the playing field UNLEVEL. I don’t blame the Non-Bumi for being so advantaged under the colonist scheme. But this UNLEVEL playing field must be balanced up — and as I pointed out earlier, this ‘field’ is SO-DAMN-FUCKED-UP (by the British colonist) and it may take hundred years to fully fix it.

    *Quoted: “On the uni places, small reduction to bumi priority does bullcrap if you ask me. If you talk about equal terms, I bet only 10% of uni entrants are Malays. “

    That’s exactly what I’m talking about! Thanks to the system that allow more bumipteras get into the local university (although this is now changing and reducing gradually).

    *Quoted: “How can you farking compare Matriculation and STPM or A levels? They are miles ahead dude! “

    I’m not comparing them. I NEVER DID. (Because you keep arguing that CHANGE is slow, or the process of changing it is quite STAGNATED) .. so, I’m just giving you an example that the so-called ‘bumi-privileged’ policies are GRADUALLY taken out or altered. Not, totally — but slowly being reduced. Your problem is — too much farking — that you don’t even try to understand my core argument. You just look at it on the surface and make your own conclusion.

    *Quoted: And how do you explain lecturers handing out answer sheets (or questions) in mosque after their prayers? And yet they still fail their exams!

    Cosmetic example! Irrelevant. OK, since you’re so obsessed with cosmetic example — let me feed up your obsession. There was this Chinese professor purposely failed students just because they were Malay/Bumiputera. It happened to my friend (while I was doing my undergrad at local U). I can even give you the name of the lecturer if you insist and made your own investigation. This case became a highlight because apparently this Chinese professor mistakenly had failed a potential first-class student. So, it was a bit odd when this student terribly failed in ONE COURSE and did EXTREMELY well in other subjects. But this didn’t make me hating Non-Bumi lecturers or trying to generalise. This kind of ‘farking thing’ does exist anywhere. No races are excluded.

    As far as tertiary education is concerned — the discrimination for the university intakes has its own justification. Let me ask you this:

    How many Non-Bumi doctors are willing to work in government hospitals for MORE THAN 5 YEARS (especially if the hospitals are somewhere ‘ulu-ulu’)? Most of them will quit the government within 5 YEARS to establish their own commercial clinics. Why? Because they have more and better access to CAPITAL and CRONY CIRCLE. I don’t blame them. Everyone wants a better life for himself/herself. Realising this fact — THANK GOD, that the government makes a policy that medical students in local universities should be in 70% (Bumi): 30% (Non-Bumi) ratio. Bumiputera doctors, generally, stay in service with the government hospitals much longer. This will allow a place like my hometown, the ulu Ranau, to have at least 2-3 doctors to serve entire 20K population. Think of what will happen if there’re only 10 bumiputera doctors produced by the local U each year? 65% of Malaysian populations still can’t afford to go to private clinics. Some members of my family do include in this 65%!

    How many Non-Bumi (Chinese especially) are interested in being teachers, polices or even in the army? THANK GOD once again, because there are more intakes for BUMI in local universities. WHY? Because these are the graduates that mostly would be willing to go to the most remote places in Sabah/Sarawak to teach Malaysian young generations. If we have 90% of Non-Bumi in the local universities — who’re going to fill in the vacuum left in the education, army/police (the upper level posts) and health sectors? Non-Bumis are naturally more into business and commercial (sectors that involve more risk and promise more gain). We can’t change this nature. Can we?

  19. Overseas Student In UK June 5, 2005 at 10:51 am #

    Points taken!

    - As I mentioned, let all my examples be “cosmetic examples” due to the fact that names cannot be named, promises cannot be broken and secrets must be kept. It’s pretty obvious among the educated Chinese, just not touched as it is sensitive.

    - Playing on a level field, is something that will never happen in Malaysia. And not even in 70 years fast forward. In other countries, as an immigrant, at least your children will be able to compete on a fair playing ground(if you immigrate now and you have kids in the near future). If this concept were to be implemented in Malaysia, it will the worst ever nightmare to happen to Malays, as seen in Singapore. Malaysia will never ever adopt a meritocracy system by how things proceed now.

    - Malay grads are still of a low quality standard if you ask any reasonable employers. Most of them can never survive in a professional work environment, hence the reluctance to hire them.

    - How about Chinese who cannot afford to take up courses at local universities due to the lack/limited government loan given to non-bumi? As Shaolin Tiger said, not all Chinese are rich! And those who applied for their choice of courses in local unis only get like their 3rd to 6th choices. Students with straight As, extremely good extra curricular activities, not offered degrees they want? There must be a loophole somewhere. I was in a Malay dominated secondary school, so I know what issues the bright-but-not-so-privilleged-Chinese students faced, especially failure to get into local unis even.

    - Sentiments of 50 people who knows what they want in life is better than sentiments of 1000 others who are led “by their noserings”. Malay mentality isn’t it? See the guy nearest to you: cry foul if he has a big car than yours, otherwise just keep merrymaking.

    - Have you ever got any Chinese friends who worked in a government office or Malay dominated office? If you have a traditionalist Malay at the top of the office, you might as well forget about any promotions. How to cari makan in this time? With a government salary you can survive if you are a Malay due to special rights, but if you are a Chinese, how to survive? That is the main reason Chinese are skeptical of the government sector. How about work training and courses, especially the overseas ones? How rarely is it awarded to non Malays? And when the Malays get it, what a waste of money to pay for their family to go too. System of “you happy, I happy lar, if we keep quiet, nobody will know” doesn’t work for instilling patriotism in non-Malays.

    - On employment, companies employ workers for advancing their businesses. Ever wonder why they employ mandarin speaking people, or not employing Malays? This is not about discrimination, it is solely business orientated policy.

    - So from the university point, are you agreeing with me that generally Malays are more stupid and lazier than their Chinese counterparts? Don’t tell me about rich kids getting tuition and more exposure bla bla bla, how about Chinese students from Chinese schools? And you would like to promote discrimination to ensure a balance? Congrats on this point! I rest my case.

    - Corporate firms, multinational companies, how many of them are fully Malay owned? And how many of them packed their bags and bungkus if ever hit by a crisis? My shout out to Malay entrepeneuers : Buck up! My dad’s taxpayer’s money is not to save your sorry asses if you fail!

    - I am sorry if people misunderstood my point about the BTN; BTN is good, but we had a government official from Jabatan Perdana Menteri trying to instill “nationalism” in us. Eyeing one of the few “minority” people there, he spoke of us as main threats and almost to be regarded as terrorists due to us being the time bombs of the country in the view of Chinese prowess in business. The government has its own “M6-like” secret intelligence, and also targetted Christians as another potential threat. As a Chinese Christian, I can’t help but feel sorry for him to take cheap shots on us.

    - People are talking about be happy with what you have. I am different, I want to make a realistic utopia for my motherland. Instead of just “nodding my head”, my Chinese roots tell me to improve. I do not hate Malaysia and its racial biasness, and am grateful for all opportunities given to me. I am just disappointed at the lack of opportunities to further make Malaysia a better place to be in. Surely there is a reason why people are migrating out of Malaysia.

    To Vincent: Tolerance with frustrations leads to dissentment, and dissentment leads to racism. Tolerance will not last a lifetime, what we want is a harmonious society. Purely tolerating someone will not solve the current biasness in terms on skin colour. why settle for the little things when you can land the big ones if we sacrifice some efforts for it? Mentality of just be grateful and accept our fate(follow the crowd) is degrading to mankind as a whole as we are always evolving to becoming a better generation. Sorry for potshots at you but sitting down and thinking about human complacency has worked me up quite a lot.

  20. REM June 5, 2005 at 3:24 pm #

    Most of your points are actually consistent with some of my core arguments. May be we just put it differently. So, I don’t want to respond specifically this time. Well, except for this one:

    Quoted: “On employment, companies employ workers for advancing their businesses. Ever wonder why they employ mandarin speaking people, or not employing Malays? This is not about discrimination, it is solely business orientated policy.”

    YES, sometimes it’s solely business orientated policy. BUT, most of the time it isn’t. The jobs can actually be performed EQUALLY effective by a non-Mandarin speaking person. They use the Mandarin thing just as a lame excuse to avoid recruiting bumiputeras (who are typically perceived as lazy and dumb). I have a friend who did a research on this — because years ago it had become an issue in Malaysia (too many recruitment ads applied this strange ‘requirement’). Tell me why you MUST employ a Mandarin-speaking receptionist for a company that is 100% operating locally (no foreign customers at all!!!)? But well, as I put it earlier, the bumiputeras have no right at all to moan about this. Bumiputeras are privileged in other aspects — so, I don’t see anything wrong if the Chinese (who dominates VARIOUS commercial sectors in Malaysia) make the most of what they are permissible to. Why not? To be honest, if I’m in their shoes — I would do exactly the same. Yes, it’s a discrimination — but what’s wrong with discrimination if it would put the balance rightfully at its place? The bumiputeras are politically privileged (government sectors). So, let the non-bumi be economically advantaged (i.e. controlling the modus operandi of MOST private sectors).

    OK. I got your point. What you’re suggesting is making the ‘playing field’ even/equal in everything. That’s a good intention and I would personally like and desperately want to see this situation happens. I truly hate to see how some bumiputeras have misused the privileges; and I certainly don’t want them to adopt “take-things-for-granted” kind of mentality. Sooner or later — all these privileges must be stopped. We can’t forever make certain group of people in this country feeling as if they are treated like a second-class citizen. However, we can’t unreasonably speed up this process. They are still many bumiputeras out there who GENUINELY very fragile and vulnerable (not because they are lazy, but because of the historical background). I know that there are also non-bumiputeras in the same situation. But, comparatively — the percentage is MUCH MUCH lower!

    The thing about policy is — we must put it in a very firm way. Either BLACK or WHITE. No room for GREY area because it will lead into complexity and difficulty (when it comes to enforcement). So, we have no option but to apply a policy that most probably protect a larger/bigger number of vulnerable people. We can’t make a national policy to suit individual cases, can we? Give me one example of country, which has applied such kind of approach and has been successful in tackling racism issue? There’s NONE.

    If we don’t want to protect the vulnerable group — what the option is? Well, making the game open and fair for everyone. Sorry, I don’t believe in capitalism and liberalism. We can’t allow a total freedom to determine the future a particular society. Equality? Survival of the fittest? Level playing field? I don’t believe in all these — especially for a society as fragile as Malaysia. As I put it before — the British colonist HAD FUCKED UP our social structure REAL BAD. Just as what the Dutch colonist had done to Indonesia. For more than 50 years, our formula of cleaning ‘the mess’ (the British culprit left many years ago!) has been working so far. The Indonesian way (which is based on ‘level playing field’) has fucked up even more the colonial mess. So, my point is — why should we have to rush in changing/altering the winning formula?

    If someone has the impression that the privileges for bumiputeras have always been there as they were 50 years ago — this is very misleading. Changes have been made and will be continued to take place in the years to come. Some may argue — OH, it is too damn slow! Yes, I do feel the same. But how fast/quick the process should be (without risking to destroy the current stability)? I bet nobody knows. Well, if you don’t know what is the speed limit of a particular area — going for the minimum is the safe option. Remember, better late than never.

    One of your arguments is: that “we can’t keep on practising the OLD FORMULA without adapting/changing it through times”. YES, totally agree with you. A very sensible point, indeed. But, if we want to change our winning formula — we must first:

    A: make sure that there’s a need for it, and not doing it just for sake of doing it (it must be done in the interest of majority, and not simply because of some loud minority).
    B: make sure that we have a better alternative, and this new formula will SURELY strengthen the harmony we are currently experiencing — not intensifying racial tension.
    C: make sure that everyone is ready — not only for ordinary people like us (who will be affected) — but those who are going to implement the new formula (politicians/government officials).

    We all can ask ourselves whether Malaysia, in general, has identified all those three areas above. This is very subjective. Different people with different backgrounds, motives and interests may come with different answers. Who has the most right and valid answer? Well, the one who can clearly picture the whole issue from all perspectives and angles. Who’s that person? I don’t know. But that person is definitely NOT me, or anyone of us here. So, let’s all just take this discussion as some insightful knowledge to think deeply about this issue — and hopefully will help us to be a better Malaysian, who has equal respect for his/her fellow Malaysians regardless of what their races are.

    I rest my point, and thanks to everyone for a very interesting argument. Sorry if I unintentionally insulted/hurt/attacked anyone in any part of my post. Please forgive my poor English too. Some part of this post might be difficult to understand due to grammar/syntax mistakes and wrong choice of words.

  21. ShaolinTiger June 5, 2005 at 9:03 pm #

    I don’t exactly follow your logic here..

    Africans and Asians and whatever else you want to group people up as pay the SAME price as the ‘white’ people in UK if they are British Citizens.

    Anyone from overseas has to pay obviously, as the LEA for each county is not going to pay for people from other countries, as it’s no benefit to the UK, be that they are from US, Canada, Asia, Africa or whatever. ‘Europeans’ are only afforded different rights because of the EU, this is the same for travel and work permits, not just education.

    So I don’t agree with what you are saying.

    And to straighten the point, it’s not about racism, it’s about racial bias. Racism is prevalent in Malaysia, but in a form of bias, not in a form of X race hates Y race, just because. The races do tend to segregate themselves though, that happens all over the world in every city. Chinese businesses have Chinese staff, Malay business, Malay staff and so on, they would all claim it’s merely a ‘language’ thing, but it’s not, it’s racial grouping.

  22. FA June 5, 2005 at 10:07 pm #

    Race and religion issues has not always just been a Malaysian problem. It’s been happening everywhere for the past century or so. It probably won’t ever end because every race/religion wants to feel superior over another. We’re flawed, and we’re fucked. :P So really, the less debate there is on this issue, the more we try to accept that everybody’s cool – the less discord. Yeay! Let’s hold hands and make jasmine garlands! Whee!

  23. belacan June 5, 2005 at 11:32 pm #

    this is my pesonal case. as a chinese malaysian, i have grown accustomed to the racial profiling and being the 2nd class citizen of malaysia.

    i receive little financial aid and had to study really really hard to get into the chinese quota for a local varsity education. as we are poor, my dad said either local university or stop studying and be an apprentice at a car workshop. (hey, i could be earning more $$$ than now if i did that! hahaha!). we hear of many chinese students going for overseas tertiary education but many don’t see the financial hardships the parents go through. i am now a parent, and the amount of $$$ i have to save to get them an overseas education is enormous! and why am i targeting an overseas education for my girls? that’s because of what i went through. how about meritocracy as practised at present? enuf said that i sincerely doubt my girls can get a local varsity education in the courses i deem as marketable. i do not want them to study really really hard only to be offered some silly degrees that are not market driven. time is precious, thus if $$$ permits will allow them to get an overseas tertiary education.

    and after that will i ask them to come back to Malaysia? that depends on the next thing, which is globalisation. to me globalisation is the real watershed that will either decrease or increase racial biasness in malaysia. and to me it will only decrease if and when Malaysia becomes more competitive in the regional and global market. whatever policies the leaders are going to make or implement, they better make sure it will make us more competitive and properous. and if that fails, even if i am given “equal treatment” and all the hullabaloo is done away, sadly may just relocate my family somewhere else for a better future. and therein is ST’s observation, that the competetent chaps have left our shores for good…. because they see a better future somewhere else.

    thanks ST.

  24. steelrage June 6, 2005 at 7:45 am #

    wow, you guys can start your own blog already. quite a number of pretty good posts and thought envoking statements. but just out of curiousity, are there REALLY malay schools? What is a Malay school? I have heard many people tell me how they are form a malay school and this makes me wonder. Does it me that if a school isn’t a
    SR/MJK (C) or (T) a school is a malay school? Funny how when i lived in perak i went to a school named SRK St. Francis. Is that a Malay school?

  25. Jaja June 6, 2005 at 10:19 am #

    i still think those companies in singapore should start thinking of hiring non-chinese.

  26. Lime June 7, 2005 at 1:57 am #

    Did you know that only Malays are the only one that can sell burgers on the street without permit nor lisence?

    If a chinese selling a burger then the police will come and ask “mana permit?”.

    If that chinese points and say ” apa hal itu orang boleh jual burger?” “why does that man (malay) can sell?

    What is this? Rights my ass.

  27. Rem June 7, 2005 at 11:25 am #

    Oh really Lime? I didn’t know that. I have a Malay friend who once tried to set up his street-burger-stall without a license and it didn’t even take 24 hours for the police and DBKL enforcement to get him out from the street. Well, different people experience different thing. But some people like to misuse his/her VERY personal experience to generlise a bigger reality. Why? I don’t know. May be they are naturally born without a logical sense – or may be they simply don’t have enough formal education.

    But Lime, IF your experience is a true representation of Malaysian reality (I said IF, not necessarily TRUE) – then who to blame?

    Do you want to blame the Malay-dominated racist police officers?

    OR

    Do you want to blame the Chinese people who mostly reluctant to join the polices/armies? Why? Because the joab as a police or army is not PROFITABLE (or should I put it – not a market-driven career?).

    Am I suggesting that just because Non-Bumi are SO DAMN RELUCTANT to join these critical sectors — they deserve to be treated differently? NO. What I’m trying to point out is — Non-Bumis are very reluctant to join these sectors, thus they generally don’t know much about it and tend to speculate a lot of unreasonable things!

    By the way, more than 35% of the street-sellers in Petaling Street are either operating illegally or selling illegal things (i.e. pirated CD, pornos, fake designer items, etc). When these mostly-Malay officers (DBKL/Polices) try to clean up this ‘SHIT’ — they are being intimidated by ‘samsengs’ (and we all know where this samseng culture originates from!). These officers’ families get terrorised and threatened. In the past, there was even incidents where officers got killed or physically harmed.

    This is the reality. But can I use this ‘very small piece of reality’ to generlise the bigger reality of Malaysia? NO. When we look at the bigger picture: all races are capable of being evil, being racist, being biased, and being dishonest — in many different ways and forms.

  28. LIONEL.blogs June 9, 2005 at 9:00 pm #

    Man-eating vacuum cleaners. Grass in a starfish’s diet. A boring episode of Lost. Michael Jackson’s innocence. Sabahans who live in trees. A Malaysian blogger without an opinion on racism. The meaning of life. Hillary Duff’s talent. Enough milo in…

  29. CH June 11, 2005 at 6:02 am #

    Great post! Thanks for writing it, mate.

  30. Huh June 12, 2005 at 4:32 am #

    Why Non-malay are not joining police force/army/teachers?

    Why Malay?

    Ask urself, how many Chinese headmaster/principle/senior inspector/major in these area?

    One word – bias. Everywhere is bias to Bumi. And dont say that Malay is patriotic. They dont have job, that’s why they are joining these fields which is low-paid.

  31. kill all malay pig June 13, 2005 at 7:36 pm #

    The special position of the malays as prescribed under Article 153 of the Constitution is limited in scope to only the reservation of reasonable quotas in these 3 sectors: public services, educational places and business licenses.

    Hence, the present rampant racial discriminations practiced on almost every facet of our national life are mostly violations of the Constitution. Examples of these violations are:

    (a) Racial discrimination in the appointment and promotion of employees in publicly funded bodies, resulting in these becoming almost mono-raced bodies. These bodies include: the police, civil service, army and various semi and quasi government agencies.

    (b) Imposition of compulsory share quota for malays in non-malay companies.

    (c) Imposition of compulsory price discounts and quotas in favour of malays in housing projects.

    (d) Completely lop-sided allocation of scholarships and seats of learning in clearly unreasonable proportions that reflect racial discriminations.

    (e) Blanket barring of non-malays to publicly funded academic institutions (that should include the Mara).

    (f) Barring of non-malays from tenders and contracts controlled directly or indirectly by the government.

    Our Constitution provides for only one class of citizenship and all citizens are equal before the law.

    The presence of Article 153 does not alter this fact, as it is meant only to protect the malays from being “squeezed” by other races by allowing the reservation of reasonable quotas on certain sectors of national life.

    However, this Constitution has now been hijacked through decades of hegemony of political power by the ruling party to result in the virtual monopoly of the public sector by a single race.

    The ensuing racism, corruption and corrosion of integrity of our democratic institutions have brought serious retrogression to our nation-building process in terms of national unity, morality, discipline and competitiveness of our people.

  32. REM June 14, 2005 at 5:55 pm #

    ” And dont say that Malay is patriotic. They dont have job, that’s why they are joining these fields which is low-paid.”

    How can they get a better and higher-paid job if Chinese businessmen don’t hire a non-Mandarin-speaking person? They have no choice – but going to the government sectors; and eventually DOMINATE that sectors. They are not patriotic? Well, this is not about patriotism. This is about survival. Not even survival of the fittest. But merely struggling to survive and to keep alive.

    “Ask urself, how many Chinese headmaster/principle/senior inspector/major in these area?”

    How many you expect them to be? If, overall, they only form less than 10% of the main-forces in the entire sector — logically, the very same ratio will be reflected in the top positions too. It’s like a cycle. Not many non-bumis are interested in this low-paid jobs. So, only few of them join in. Therefore, the probability for any member of ‘this small group’ to get into higher positions is equally reduced (basic statistical theory!). Thus, when they are not many non-bumis in the top positions — people tend to think that it’s unfair. This perception then will more-strongly discourage the young non-bumis to join in these sectors. Hmmm…

    Yes, I admit that certain Malays/Bumiputeras have unnecessarily “exaggerated” what they should enjoy under the official constitution. This is about attitude and mentality — on personal level. Of course we have to find a way to tackle that. But, it’s not about the policy itself. The original spirit of this discussion (initiated by Shaolin) is to ATTACK all the ‘perceivedly-racist’ unjustified policies — and calling for something ‘equal’. This is the core argument that I totally disagree with.

    What it takes so long to balance up the ‘gap’ between Bumi and Non-Bumi?

    (a) (Sorry, I have to repeat this once again) The Imperialist British had fucked up our society REAL BAD during the colonial era – with the governing method of “divide and rule”. In order to fix this SHIT, Malaysia left with no choice but have to make a sacrifice (i.e. certain group is more privileged than other). Indonesia has decided NOT TO SACRIFICE any group — and they end up with a chaos social structure until now!

    (b) The efforts initiated by the government (through its ‘discriminating-policies’) to make the Bumi more competitive doesn’t really go very well – so far. WHY? (i) These bumiputeras/Malays tend to take things for granted (or, should I say ‘lazy’?); (ii) The non-bumis (esp. Chinese) take advantage of this and indirectly encouraging the ‘Ali Baba’ culture (or should I say they are plainly being opportunist?).

    Who’s to blame? I blame both races. The non-bumi for being lazy and so much dependant to the Non-Bumi (i.e. when the government gives them an opportunity under the quota for bumis – they ‘resell’ the opportunity to the more competent and with stronger capital Non-bumis. So? These Malays/Bumis end up being ‘Ali Baba’). That’s why after 30 years — the ‘Dasar Ekonomi Baru’ (New Economic Policy) hardly manages to change anything significantly. Why? The Malays/Bumiputeras are generally not strong enough; and thing isn’t made easier by the Non-Bumis who offer some significant helps to sabotage the process.

    So, again.. another circle! Hmmm…

  33. Hauru June 24, 2005 at 11:07 am #

    wow, first time here, and i must admit that i respect and totally salute your courage to bring such matters to light!

    i do believe that the current government policy has ensured a certain level of relative peace and stability in the country to ensure economic growth…but such policies have to be reconsidered with time or they’ll cause more harm than good. such effects include decreased competitiveness in the international arena…and possible social problems in the future…and yes, i feel that racism is malaysia still exists but people merely do not talk about it in public, or are just ignorant about this very sensitive and very important issue. It is an issue that we will have to resolve.

    the government policy is the main problem here, not the malays. look at the service we have in government depts. most bumis here take things for granted…. and i don’t think we can blame them for it, for it is the policy’s fault. such policies, once implemented, create economic and social dependence to a certain level, the bumis are in a sense brought up with the idea that they are the rightful owners of malaysia and deserve whatever benefits without ever working hard to acchieve their goals.

    Quotas. i think it is indeed a sad and pitiful issue that we have implemented such a policy. The current policy ensures that bumis will retain 65% of scholarships no matter what results they end up with. The non-bumis who have better results but do not get the scholarships have no choice but to study in private colleges or overseas,,..and i believe that many who have studied overseas do not plan to return, for they do not face such discrimation…i believe the NEP is double-edged sword, for it has its advantages and disadvantages,,,but i think it is time that the policy should be reviewed and adapted to modern times.

    Education, another problem and dillemma we are facing here. just look at our history textbooks. I believe i can say that the ministry of education has modified the history textbooks to a certain extent to suit their “Racial Intergration” policies. the fr. 4 history text book has over 60% content about Islam and Islamic culture in general. They advertise the superiority of Islam as compared to other religions. and history txtbooks removed much content about chinese and indian contributions towards independance…its not that i have anything agianst Islam or malays, its just that i think history is something that should not be changed. we should learn from history, not try to change it and deceive the public about how grand and glorious your past was. I would also say that the ruling party or coalition is using history and education in particular to their advantage – to stay in power. modern Malaysian in textbooks comprises almost entirely of history of the current coalition and almost none of the oppositions. Malaysians are being taught that only the ruling coalition is the only way to bring developement to the country and the opposition is just being labelled as *useless, and dull*.

    and perhaps the other problem is the governent tends to focus on silly things like singing the national anthem in cinemas…tell me, would this help in patriotism?! if the Malaysian are not being patriotic, then the government should seriously ponder about the reason they’re not patriotic and then solve them. Are Malaysians not patriotic because they do not sing the national anthem often enough? STOP WASTING TIME IMPLEMENTING NATIONAL ANTHEM SINGING IN CINEMA AND SPEND MORE TIME REVIVING THE ECONOMY, PREPARING BETTER INFRASTRUCTURE, PUBLIC SERVICES, BETTER EDUCATION, AND BETTER OPPORTUNITIES FOR ALL!!

    such racism discrimination are problems that we need to solve, or Malaysians will just end up as “champions in the kampung”…as you have said, the cream will just fled the country in search of greener pastures..

  34. Biq June 27, 2005 at 2:42 am #

    I’m actually a malay-chinese guy. My mother is chinese and my dad is malay. My sister and me brought up by my mother. So, part of us live like chinese. We listen to chinese channel, we sing chinese song, watch chinese movie and so on. But our mother never let us necglet our relegion. She’s one tough mother. I love her so much. She could have been looking 4 some other guy and change her believe. Or just eat pork or drink beer just like some other converted single mother i knew. She’s still keeping the ties with my father but the chemistry is little.
    In my opinion, I totaly agree with the equality of privillege. I forecast that if malay willing to take the risk…together with the chinese and indian…Malaysia will be one of the top country in world. And for the sake of the new generation of malay to learn from the their dad or mom about the “right” world they living in..
    But in the other hand, just like tigerjoe said:”Something given for free will have no value to the recipient; unless they always remember that it is given as a gift. When one remembers, then only will one place a value on that gift. The day we forget is the day we take the gift for granted, and fail to treat our gifts properly. “….The right way to remember the gift is willing to break free and take the chances or risk in return.

  35. malaysia is no future August 10, 2005 at 9:37 am #

    Forty-seven years after independence, the people of Malaysia are still searching for an identity. Are they malays or muslims first; are they Chinese, Indians or Malaysians first?

    This identity crisis is a result of the failure of the BN government, which has ruled Malaysia since independence in 1957, later as the expanded Barisan Nasional.

    The truth is that the malays of this country partly owe their independence to the non-malays. The reason was that the British refused to give independence without an agreement from the non-malays.

    Another argument put forth by the pro-malay special rights group is that, they made a compromise by giving the non-malays their citizenship and in exchange the malays must be given their special privileges.

    This argument is the most ridiculous I have heard thus far but in their ignorance some Malaysians still think that citizenship is for a certain race to give. This logic would mean that the minorities will always be seen as foreigners who will never be equal to the malay bumis.

    The Chinese and Indians must accept they are immigrants and they were given citizenships in 1957 on the agreement that the malays are given special rights and privileges.

    Stretching your logic a bit further, are you also suggesting that in America, the Negroes continue to be slaves to the whites otherwise they give up US citizenship and go back to Africa?

    This is stupid idiotic logic. Even if the so-called contract was valid, it was so only in the 50s and 60s.

    We are nearly 50 years after independence and all Chinese and Indians have begun citizens. They are no more bound by the so-called social contract which enslaved their ancestors.

    Umno is afraid to give up ketuanan melayu because it is bankrupt of ideas in competing with others in this 21st century democracy.

    Umno’s warped logic is that it is better for country to be backward so long as malays benefit than for country to prosper, where malays are marginalized.

    This warped logic is in fact the beginning of the end of the malays who will never progress and compete with others on equal footing and level playing field, so long as they subscribe to ketuanan melayu and have crutch mentality in forever relying on special privileges……….

    Malays will crumble from internal weaknesses and disappear in era of globalization……….no need for others to colonize them as Mahathir had constantly raised this bogey.

    My dad is a racist; so is my mom. Similarly racists are my brother, sister and relatives. All the Malaysian friends I now have are, and those I had were or at the least had been, racists too.

    Well, perhaps thanks to all these people, I have become – and remain – a racist as well.

    You see, we are the members of a much larger community: Malaysia – the racist nation!

    The term community is somewhat misleading. We are not united as such as a nation should be. We are only united by the fact that all of us – at one time or other – had been are or will become, racists……

    All of us formally became racists in the year of 1971, when racism was institutionalised in Malaysia. Not that racism didn’t exist before: it did; it lurked underneath, which — as everyone knows — erupted as the May 13 ethnic riots. Hence came the New Economic Policy, set up to divert the winds off the sails of racism. Ballasting the boat, and listing it in favour of the economically disadvantaged malay-Malaysians may lead to Malaysians seeing each other as equals, it was thought.

    Then came the 80s, which also gave Dr Mahathir.

    Still, racism remained somewhat otherworldly to me. All of us practiced racism, on the streets, in shops, in schools and in the house, but racism was never blatant – at least in my life. That changed as the 80s came to a close.

    …………

    Please tell me, can anyone even imagine a multi-cultural Malaysian nation — where no one discriminates the other on the basis of race, where everyone treats the other as a brother or sister – being run by the same racist parties that exist now? Is such a future even conceptually possible?

    It is time for me to descend to earth and crawl back into my racist carapace, and be a realist again. And heap praises on our nation and on the ideals that are so central to its psyche: long live, racism! Long live, racist Malaysia – the model racist nation!

    It is no wonder our civil participation is as backward as it is.

    Do you have any idea why Singapore is almost the first world country or 20 years better than Malaysia?

    One could argue every country has its own policies and laws that place prejudice on certain parties – yes, that is true, but none so shamefully as those who (Malaysia) not only boast about it, take the credit for the successes of these people whom they slam their discriminatory abuses on, and have no intention to change it (and that said with a smug look on the face).

    Bangsa Malaysia? Bah, humbug!

  36. run away from malaysia August 10, 2005 at 10:34 am #

    It is true NEP has its good and its bad points depending on whose view you are looking at it.

    The non-bumi has been straddled with this law for a long time and I can see lots of dissatisfaction emerging from their rank. This can be seen by the ever-increasing number of emigration taking place as well as non-returning students from abroad.

    I cannot start to call them traitor, as some of the bumis here seem to imply on them. Put yourself in their shoe first and feel the full effect of the discrimination for over 30 years……….Do you think you will be happy? Anybody?

    Want to know why the so call non-bumis are all running away from Malaysia for greener pasture as bumis call traitors and rats? Know that even rats must be wise to jump ship when the ship is sinking.

    The government has been pushing the unity theme for Malaysia for a long time – The so-called Bangsa Malaysia. How do you unite people? How are you going to unite people of different races where one race enjoys more rights than other races? Unity can never happen if there is inequality.

    So, if you don’t want people to comment on your special rights, then don’t talk about unity in front of the non-bumis.

    The next reason why the non-bumis keep on condemning the special rights is because of the implementation of it. Does every bumi has the chance to enjoy their special rights? From what non-bumis have been seeing since the past till now, only the rich and powerful are enjoying it. The poor bumis are still poor. How many poor bumis were transformed from poverty to middle class?

    Sure, what you talk about your experience might be true if you put it in a nutshell. You cite examples of success cases and stories which is what it should be. But don’t use special rights to deny a fellow deserving Malaysian of that chance too.

    If you don’t trust your fellow countrymen, whom in the world are you going to put your faith into?

    The reasons have been given, countless in fact. And I believe you can also see it for yourself what kind of state Malaysia is in now. No unity, no improvement in the competitiveness in Malaysia.

    I believe no community will get stronger if it depends on protection all the time. In face of globalization, each one must pull its own weight but work as a team. Otherwise we go down together.

    Even when we were children we were taught the strength of sticking together. Ultimately, we probably won’t affect policy much. But it will satisfy me to know, someone reading this, will accept my argument. If only one person reads this and is willing to change their way of thinking, then I have succeeded.

    Because they will then carry that idea to the next person.

    Like myself, I will seriously wish that my future children would not have to endure the same pain as I did. The system hasn’t changed much in the past (even if they do change, the change usually isn’t beneficial to non-bumis), and as I can foresee, the system won’t change much in the future too.

    I know things cannot be as ideal as everyone would wish. We all are persevering. Nevertheless, when there is a better opportunity worthwhile to pursue, we will go for it.

  37. yes malaysia is no future August 10, 2005 at 1:30 pm #

    I wish to point out that the Orang Asli, not the malays, are the original inhabitants of Malaysia. Most of the malay Malaysians came from Sumatra and other parts of Indonesia. They only migrated here much earlier than the Chinese and Indian Malaysians. It does not mean they deserve privileges or rights just because they were the pioneer immigrants.

    It is true that there have been abuses under the name of malay special rights and it is the duty of the malays in particular, and all Malaysians in general, to stop it so that the rightful malays get their rights, and the non-malays get their rights as citizens of this country.

    It’s a sad thing to say, but I do believe the main thing that’s holding back malays is not the Chinese or the Indians, but the malays themselves. That’s why Dr M and Pak Lah have been quoted as telling to throw away crutches and work hard to face the challenges of globalisation.

    The malay and others of the same mind should learn to stand on their own feet rather than claim for special privileges and rights. The world is becoming globalised and if they don’t change their attitude, they will only become beggars in their own country.

    As for the malays who insist on hiding behind the veil of malay special rights – you have lost the respect of non-malays a long time ago.

    We also suspect that the current situation will, unfortunately, get worse if no action is taken now. Why? Because our kids in school hardly mix with each other. They will grow up with little understanding of their fellow Malaysians, and with the suspicions that exist, it will be worse.

    The truth of the matter is that polarisation in Malaysia is caused by the discriminatory practises of the government – especially after the NEP – rather than vernacular education.

    The NEP is upheld for the rich and not the poor in Malaysia.

    Whether we admit it or not, the problem is that the special rights and privileges given have now resulted in only a selected few bumis getting richer and richer. The bulk of the bumis, especially in the rural areas are not benefiting from the system.

    Poor people are poor people, rich people are rich people – no matter which race they come from.

    The poor in Malaysia must be served but I am sure all taxpayers feel that this should be done in a manner which is blind to age, ethnicity, gender and religion.

    What’s wrong with extending help to all deserving citizens based on needs and merits regardless of race?

    The Malaysian problem is that rich do become richer. And because of the political system, the players are the same.

    Out of control – this is all I can say about any type of enforcement and the level of corruption in Malaysia. No idea what Pak Lah has done in his first year in office but judging from the ground, I guess nothing much.

    If you have ever heard of the simple saying, “Give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach him how to fish and he eats for a lifetime,” you will realise that many non-bumis have learned how to fish but the government is still handing out fishes to the bumis. One day the fish will run out.

    If you want to say discrimination is here in the US, yes, of course it is. Can you name a country where it doesn’t happen? But let me tell you one thing – if you go looking for it, you will find it. But in Malaysia, you don’t have to go look for it because it seeks you out, slaps you in your face every which way you turn, and is sanctioned by law!

    Official figures have more than one million Chinese Malaysians emigrating over the past 25 years. Why did they emigrate? I am sure the government knows.

    For most professionals, living abroad has its own ups and downs. But, you get dignity, fair treatment, and respect for your ability. You get a voice, too. And ears to hear you.

    Brain drain by the tank-loads is what we get. Every single year, Malaysia loses people who could potentially contribute to the country immensely.

    So the malay, you may keep your rights and perpetuate them. Such things are archaic. Who loses in the end? Your country, which should have been a first world one by today.

    I sympathize with those that have benefited from the NEP, but the bad news is that the price he pays for his progress is much higher than what he pays for his benefit.

    These special privileges and rights were once a necessity for them to move forward. Today, after many decades, they find themselves still standing in the same place.

    It is a shame that our history has been constantly twisted so that our younger generation has no understanding of Malaysia’s foundation and its true aspirations.

    It is arguable that if not for the contributions of the Chinese and Indian Malaysians who helped in the development of this country tremendously, Malaysia would probably be in same category like Indonesia or the Philippines, if not worst.

    To improve the malays lot, more have to be made to work in private companies where competition is real and what counts is your ability. If special rights only help malays to become government servants, then all the more reason not to invoke special rights.

    But of course, the present ruling elite drunken with wealth, will continue to fight this dream to ensure that Malaysia is kept divided so that BN can continue to rule.

    Alternatively, Malaysians may begin to realise the dream of a new Malaysia.

    The bitter truth is that the majority of this nation don’t see the need to change things yet and until then, we can do little about it.

    The bottom line with present day globalisation is this: compete on a level-playing field or you will lose. Plain and simple.

  38. Syed Mokhtar bin Syed Mustafa October 25, 2005 at 1:01 am #

    wow! your comments and ‘observations’ against the malays really show what you are made of, FULL of SHIT! you came here a day or two and then try to analyze the entire history of the malays, politically and psychologically. If you consider the malays as the economically disabled, i might agree with you since we are not ‘as piggy ‘ as the westerners and the chinese in gathering worldly wealth coz we are guided by our Islam. So, before considering any assumptions, check out your darker side first!

  39. malaysia no future December 8, 2005 at 8:47 pm #

    The non-malays have heard this one before – If you think that Malaysia not good, please go out this country.

    Umno has been brought up to think they are the prince of the land.

    Every time they get cornered, Umno will tell the other race to go out where they belong. I think Umno must change their thinking or they will pull down the country to the middle age.

    So far there is no Umno leader that can lead them to be modern 21st century citizens.

    Rather Umno is anti this or anti that. There is no forward looking and thinking to break free perspective.

    Malaysia developed nation on year 2020?

    The problem with Malaysia ministers is that they are mostly underachievers academically!

    That is the reason why they simply speak without logic and reasons. This is also the very reason that I admire Lim Kit Siang, Karpal, etc, who can debate intelligently with those monkeys who never bother to understand what is uttered.

    Just compare the resume of Malaysia ministers with that from our southern neighbour! Then you will understand.

    I know their prime minister has a first class honors in science from Cambridge if I am not mistaken. The rest of his cabinets are very highly qualified. Hence you don’t hear nonsense from them.

    For your information, some Malaysia ministers would not be at all qualified for even an assistant post!

    Our country leaders, not necessary meaning the prime minister, but overall people in power, people of authority etc, have no integrity, no moral, no self respect and most of no accountability and responsibility.

    Let’s not compare with other countries, as no countries have perfect leaders, but what they have is integrity.

    When they do something wrong and they know it is wrong, nobody need to tell them to resign, they won’t say our Malaysia usual line “Nobody can resign me except the prime minister” – we should call this the ball-less line.

    If you have integrity and honest enough, you should just resign.

    This is why Malaysia is moving backward. With this kind of ministers who are not willing to tackle the root of the issue, but instead blaming others for exposing bad news and sweeping things under the carpet – what hope can you foresee for Malaysia in the future.

    Perhaps we should have “Look Africa” policy, rather than “Look East” policy – since a lot of things are similar between Malaysia and Africa countries except oil.

  40. malaysia is no future December 8, 2005 at 8:52 pm #

    ————

    Many many years ago, my brothers, cousins and friends, all top students applied to local university to be computer and electrical engineers.

    None of us got in. We all went abroad, many of us made a killing but all of us had a good career and was in the centre of the IT revolution.

    Recently some of us were approached to return to Malaysia but even at million-ringgit salary, we unanimously said no.

    Cheated once, it’s a pity, cheated twice is your fault.

    Drug abuse, hate, incest, liberal extremism (culture of miniskirts and gay marriages), murder, racism, rape, religious fanaticism, parochialism, snatch theft, spoilt-bratty behavior, tribalism, wife abuse, child abuse, all that is associated with the malay race.

    To them, malay is the biggest impediment towards building a truly Malaysian nation, and should be chucked into the dustbins of history.

    Sad. Sad. Sad.

    The question asked by many of my fellow Chinese is this – Why can’t you just tell the malay peoples to adopt Chinese culture which is superior?

    History always repeats itself. And nature is cruel. Any race of lower intelligence gets wiped out eventually.

    See what is happening to indigenous tribes and their lands, always taken over by smarter people from elsewhere.

    Look at Singapore, who owned it in the first place and who came and took it over?

    America was taken by Europeans from the Red Indians. Even British convicts and unwanted low life managed to grab Australia from the aborigines and reduced them to what they are today. They may become extinct one day.

    However, Malaysians still have hope as they are learning fast. Just hope it is fast enough. Problem is that some of them are still crying for bumis policy as a crutch. The smarter ones know that it is just prolonging the agony. Anyway, the smarter ones actually are not from Malaysia originally.

    You can only survive if you are able to stand on your own two legs. Shouting “Malaysia boleh” is no use – if you can, you can.

    “Only a quarter of Malaysian is Chinese while more than half of the population is malays. Yet Chinese control half of the economy while malays only about 20%.”

    Whether there is NEP or not, don’t make much difference in the long run. When you walk with crutches for too long, you lose the ability to stand on your own legs.

    Friend, you have a place there. Find your own niche in the food chain. (If you leave for greener pastures, you are repeating what your forefathers did when they left China and ended up in oversea.)

    People with brains can overcome all sorts of man-made obstacles or unfairness. Those with brains but do not use them will cry for help.

    You can decide which type you want to be.

    —————

  41. bad man December 10, 2005 at 2:27 pm #

    =======

    Look at America. What happened to the American Indians?

    Because they refuse or reluctant to be progressive and continue to stay in huts and forest reserves.

    Similar here, the malays are not locals. Parameswara came from India? Indonesia? Can’t remember but he was definitely not local. Where malays came from? Indonesia? Arab? What happened to our orang asli?

    They are the original settlers here, they should be the true real bumiputras. Not the babiputras we have here.

    So its history repeating itself again. Best example is America and Australia. All the orang aslis in these countries are almost non-existent. Take a walk out in the streets, you’ll find more whites than aborigines.

    So, these melayus here, what they are doing now is, they are claiming land and take it all to themselves. They realize malays are:

    1- LAZY
    2- INCOMPETENT
    3- NO SENSE OF URGENCY
    4- SPOILT BY THE GOVERNMENT

    ===========

  42. low class country December 10, 2005 at 2:31 pm #

    Imagine our prime minister lecturing on the real facts of peace and unity in Malaysia.

    “We (government) do not practise meritocracy and social fairness. We practise discrimination and racism in our education system, housing allocation and discount, jobs, university entry. We extort and blackmail non-bumis through Approved Permits and shares equity. We dish out handouts to bumis, etc. That is how we achieve peace and unity.”

    The only reason why there is peace and unity is because the non-bumis are tolerant, progressive, peace, moderate, magnanimous and loving, despite the racism, keris wielding and discriminatory policies.

    If the future leader is bollocks then the future of this country is also bollocks.

    The education system in this country from top to bottom is going from bad to worst, we are producing robots, incompetent, hapless, crony and brainwashed leaders.

    Going by that, the track record of the Umno government is nothing less than embarrassing and shameful.

    While the rich and famous in the Umno coalition is feasting off the richness of the land christened Malaysia, thousands more are languishing in poverty, sickness and adverse social circumstances.

    I care for my fellow citizens regardless of race and religion and there is nothing more I wish to see that for them to be able to lead a decent life through diligence and honesty. But such values are of no worth in a corrupted and racist system like the Umno government’s.

    The current debate is not about race, religion or political ideology. It’s about good values or rather, the lack of them in the current Umno politicians.

    One must not mistake hatred against racism with hatred against race. The former is admirable, and the latter deplorable.

    From the comments of you malay, I can conclude that he is either delirious and confused or he is simply a typical Umno politician – colored-vision, conceited and paranoid.

    Your comments clearly show your insecurity as well as your inferiority complex. Unfortunately, your comments suggest that your views represent all the malays.

    It also shows that you, as representing the malays, concede that you are not prepared and will never be prepared, even in the future, to meet with competition. You suggest that you need to be wrapped in cotton wool for all time.

    You may be the ketuanan of Malaysia but what kind of Malaysia will that be by then if you continue with your tunnel vision and refuse to meet and compete with the rest of the world.

    The world does not owe you a favour and will not wait for you. A big problem is that you expect the world and everyone to owe you a living. Get real the world owes you nothing!

    You will be in a very small country and a small world of your own. You may be the ketuanan of such a country which may be weaker than a banana republic in time.

    Under those circumstance, it may not be important whether you are the ketuanan of such a country which is not third rate but fourth rate, and which may be open to be taken by a stronger force. By then you will be too weak and friendless to defend yourself.

    Please don’t think that Malaysia belongs to one particular race, you are insulting yourself, and your race, don’t ever forget that some key leaders in top government are with mixed blood, not pure malays……….please know your mission as a Malaysian, to live united with the other races and fight independently with the globalised world.

    Don’t be narrow-minded anymore, do correct thing to make things right.

    The “bumiputera” stole the land from Orang Asli. By right all of Malaysia should belong to them. If recall history as the current generation of malays came over from Sumatra, Jawa, and the island around.

    If your thinking remains the same – please go back to Indonesia where you can proudly call yourself bumis there.

  43. cool December 10, 2005 at 2:36 pm #

    Our current malay generation is racist now because they desperately want to hang on to privileges which I frankly believe is slowly causing the malay race to rot away and become a pathetic race on crutches dependent.

    I think that malays are the most stupid idiots on earth……….They might have big sized bodies bud in their head, they have puny brains……….

    Thus coming to the conclusion that they are the most stupid black blocks on earth……….they are colored black and stink like a garbage dump……….

    Does malay ever think twice about their religious? What if yours believe is not what you think……….

    You malays will rape anybody just for sexual pleasure. You didn’t read about the malay who raped his own sister?

    Not only that! They yell 5 times per day and expect to go to heaven! After committing so many sins like killing, rape, steal!

    If Americans don’t hate the malays, why is there so much bad press against Mahathir when he scolded the Americans? Isn’t he a malay? You malays are brainless and never read the newspaper. Everyday special rights here and there……….still like your tongkat so much!

    You go to American embassy and see which country now is blacklisted? Did they blacklist Singapore, Taiwan?

    Malays are jealous of Chinese, that is why they hate them. Americans are not jealous of Chinese, because they don’t need tongkat. They buy a lot of Chinese goods. If they hate, they would have boycott the products. Bodoh!

    Oh! Bodoh! Only blind man needs tongkat.

    Even the Japanese look down upon the malays because they are just a bunch of lazy, fool, corrupted person who feed on the Chinese income tax for their existence.

    The malays want to produce as many pig babies as they want, but doesn’t teach them what is honesty, hard working, civilisation!

  44. racist king December 10, 2005 at 2:39 pm #

    Racist. Racist. Racist…………

    Now almost 50 years of independence, we really should review the social contract because it has not served its purpose. Somewhere along the line, it got twisted further and a religious dimension was brought in.

    This is because 3rd generation non-malays born and bred on this soil is considered ‘pendatang’ and second class citizens. Whereas recent Indonesian newcomers and Pakistani husbands to malays enjoy better privileges.

    Now this agenda is religiously skewed and that is how the Indonesians and the Pakistanis are enjoying better privileges at the expense of 3rd or 4th generation non-malay Malaysians.

    This also probably explains why the Orang Asli still do not fully enjoy the privileges of the social agenda.

    The NEP has only served a few. Its original motives were noble because weather you or I agree malays do need a lot of encouragement but not the sort that have been getting as opposed to the ones in Singapore.

    In the 1970s in Singapore, O and A levels pass marks for Malays: 28%, Indians: 65%, Chinese: 75%, others: 50%.

    This NEP discrimination only made the non-malays smarter and the malays more dumb. Pass mark for Singapore malays in state: 50%.

    Singapore allow them to leave Singapore any time they want but they choose to stay because their kids are properly educate, got better opportunities, housing and health care……….And they are truly loyal to Singapore.

    I would like to add further to what has mentioned.

    (1) Singapore’s first president was a malay. The republic has also had two Indian presidents including the present one.

    (2) The republic Singapore has had two Indian deputy prime ministers including the current one.

    (3) It has had two Indian foreign ministers.

    (4) The country’s present minister for education is an Indian.

    (5) A former police chief (equivalent to Inspector-General of Police) was, yes, you guessed it, an Indian.

    Can we ever expect such important government positions in Malaysia to be occupied by those representing the minority communities in Malaysia? I am afraid the minorities here can only dream.

    As I said, the racial disharmony in Malaysia is not the cause of Chinese, Indians or Malays.

    The fault and blame lies squarely and directly on Umno and Umno Youth leaderships, and their barrel of race-based politics and policies.

    Are the malays so impoverished in intellect and ability that they need handouts to survive?

    The alternative already exists – the day the malays rely on themselves, not Umno, is the day they write their own destiny.

    Protection for the malays means isolation for the malays. As long as they ask for more protection, they will be isolated from the progress of the world.

    In the end, they will be hiding in caves like the Taliban. Nowhere to go because of inadequate skills, or skills that are not useful to the society and humankind at large.

    Income and employment statistics show the Chinese are still ahead of other races but nowhere near pre-NEP levels.

    The aids and opportunities provided under the NEP, if given to non-malays would propel them sky high in half the period.

    The hardship makes us better, stronger and wiser. Hence we always try our best for the better of our next generation.

    If you malays don’t like it here, then go back to Sumatra, Jawa, or wherever your ancestors came from and give this land back to its rightful masters, the Orang Asli!

  45. killer December 18, 2005 at 4:00 am #

    ———

    Reading these comments. I just realise how ethnocentric Malaysia is become in the 21st century!

    They sit in parliament to make laws, head ministries who they themselves have no confident in, fail to raise it above level and send their own children to overseas because they know, the quality of education in Malaysia is not good.

    First, Malaysians……….you have been cheated by BN politicians and second, Malaysians……….the BN leaders sucked you, they use your tax money to finance their children overseas but your children have been neglected…………double fools.

    Have commented that malays including intellectuals want non-meritocracy and NEP to stay or implemented. Even malay intellectuals distrust feelings against multiracial parties even though they are against Umno.

    They believe that only Umno can protect malays rights. Therefore it is imperative that non-malays vote opposition to change the present system otherwise non-malays will continue to send their children overseas for education because they have no choice, whilst malays politicians and wealthy ones will continue to send their children overseas because the education standard here is low.

    How ironic.

    MAS case is only the tip of the iceberg. The whole country administration machinery, privatized or not privatized, is governed by a bunch of incompetents.

    We can’t trust our schools and universities as the BN leaders also send their children overseas to study, as they themselves also can’t trust the education system.

    In case of sickness, our BN leaders also rush to Singapore or overseas to seek treatments, as they themselves also can’t trust our own medical system. The only thing we can hear is the boastfulness everywhere in this Bolehland.

    If we correct from our mistakes we are still men. But the trouble is that we keep on repeating mistakes, and instead of correcting, we keep on fining excuses.

    Worst still we want to imagine that we are great, sending astronaut to the space using other people’s spaceship.

    In the end, the money come from the taxpayers again to fund these losses while the political leaders and top management get away with huge pay packages, and to make matters worst, they will just run away with it.

    Yes, this is the secret recipe called ‘Boleh’ – only available in Bolehland!

    ————-

  46. Malaysian student in Sydney April 30, 2006 at 8:38 pm #

    RESPECT mate. Great topic and discussion.

    I can really understand what many of Malaysian students overseas feeling. Let me tell you guys about me. Im an Indian from Kedah. My dad is a big business man, rich guy, with his proucts world wide. I studied in a very expensive boarding school in Nilai. One day im gona take over my dad’s businesses, and my dad cant wait for that. The problem starts here. To tell you guys the truth, im not looking forward for that at all!!

    Yes, ofcourse, when i take over i could get big house, big car, no worries. But there’s something more then money here. Im a very patriotic person, I love Malaysia. But sometime, i really doubt whether my country loves me??!!

    What im trying to say is, when i live in Sydney, eventough im gona work for someone else, but i feel like im treated the same as others by people who work with me, people who im dealing wiht, and even in government bodies. In Malaysia, if not because of my dad, i doubt i’ll get a big loan, or approval of projects by government bodies, and contracts from government or national companies!! no matter how good i am!!

    This is my life experiance. When i was little, my dad founded his company from zero. Loans here and there, sold all the properties. In a few years he succeded by working very hard. And all of a sudden there came a VERY BIG malay top politicians son and a Sultan with the same kind of my dad’s company and locate it just 5 kilometers away. That was not all, they tried to pull few customers of my dad, by showing them who are they and they have power. The story when on, but in 9 months the company was shut down, leavig 100′s jobless. And not paying off millions of ringgit loans they took from the bank.

    Well, after seeing all these, im seriously doubting whether i should go back or not. But one thing for sure, if i did go back that because my love for my family, my friends, and my COUNTRY. P/s and the food.ahah

  47. niki June 19, 2006 at 12:05 am #

    acutually there is mcuh more discrimination practise happening every day. such as bumino need to give deposit when they want to become a remisier in a stock broking firm, moreover the company must pay them monthly allowance. For non-bumi, must give deposit generally minimum of RM50K and no allowance will be given to them.

    what policy is this?